UPC District board suing church in MS.?

MissBrattified · #1 11-12-2008, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

I agree with you some. But Jesus ran the buyers and sellers out of the church for thier actions inside the temple he did not just walk away and find another building. In your way of thinking If someone wanted to change the American flag you would be ok with it b/c its only a symbol. The actual feelings and liberties it stands for really lie in the hearts of the veterans. Just a question to try to understand your point more.

He was Jesus. He could see hearts, therefore He could make judgments about their hearts and react accordingly. He had the right to bring about judgment, call them hypocrites, and to call attention to what was in their hearts. No human has the ability to see in a man's heart, or react as if he/she has that ability. (E.g., pronounce judgment accordingly)

So the example of Jesus in the temple doesn't apply, because NONE of us would ever qualify to wreak that kind of havoc.

I also agree that we have the right to "judge a matter" among ourselves. That is different from pronouncing judgment upon another person, and going through the church with a (figurative) whip. In this case, though, several people have said that taking the matter to court was a last resort, and that biblical avenues had already been exhausted. Therefore, it is apparent that judging the matter amongst the church didn't work. After that, the only recourse is to walk away. IMO, anyway.

aak1972 · #2 11-12-2008, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

He was Jesus. He could see hearts, therefore He could make judgments about their hearts and react accordingly. He had the right to bring about judgment, call them hypocrites, and to call attention to what was in their hearts. No human has the ability to see in a man's heart, or react as if he/she has that ability. (E.g., pronounce judgment accordingly)

So the example of Jesus in the temple doesn't apply, because NONE of us would ever qualify to wreak that kind of havoc.

I also agree that we have the right to "judge a matter" among ourselves. That is different from pronouncing judgment upon another person, and going through the church with a (figurative) whip. In this case, though, several people have said that taking the matter to court was a last resort, and that biblical avenues had already been exhausted. Therefore, it is apparent that judging the matter amongst the church didn't work. After that, the only recourse is to walk away. IMO, anyway.

So if someone decieves your lender or if thier is an error in bookeeping and your lender forecloses on your home that you built with your own hands you would walk away?

MissBrattified · #3 11-12-2008, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

So if someone decieves your lender or if thier is an error in bookeeping and your lender forecloses on your home that you built with your own hands you would walk away?

aak, do you not perceive that there is a difference between church matters and personal matters? Scripture makes it clear that God expects church matters to be handled within the church. As for personal losses--we've suffered them.

You keep arguing, but you really aren't arguing with me. Almost every person on this thread has presented scripture to support their points. Can you present scripture that supports taking legal action against a pastor or brother?

Michael Phelps · #4 11-12-2008, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

aak, do you not perceive that there is a difference between church matters and personal matters? Scripture makes it clear that God expects church matters to be handled within the church.

You keep arguing, but you really aren't arguing with me. Almost every person on this thread has presented scripture to support their points. Can you present scripture that supports taking legal action against a pastor or brother?

Who needs scripture when you have emotion?

aak1972 · #5 11-12-2008, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

aak, do you not perceive that there is a difference between church matters and personal matters? Scripture makes it clear that God expects church matters to be handled within the church.

You keep arguing, but you really aren't arguing with me. Almost every person on this thread has presented scripture to support their points. Can you present scripture that supports taking legal action against a pastor or brother?

I am not arguing scripture with you. I cant find any on what to do when a pastor does what this one has done. If you can find one dealing with a deceptive lying pastor let me know please.

Dimples · #6 11-12-2008, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

I am not arguing scripture with you. I cant find any on what to do when a pastor does what this one has done. If you can find one dealing with a deceptive lying pastor let me know please.

There are the 10 commandments. Thy shall not lie.

Michael Phelps · #7 11-12-2008, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

I am not arguing scripture with you. I cant find any on what to do when a pastor does what this one has done. If you can find one dealing with a deceptive lying pastor let me know please.

How about reading the story of Saul and David.

Is your pastor your father-in-law, and has he tried to kill you? Has he thrown a spear across the room at you?

Even then, you don't have Biblical authority to retaliate. Let God handle it.

Dimples · #8 11-12-2008, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

So if someone decieves your lender or if thier is an error in bookeeping and your lender forecloses on your home that you built with your own hands you would walk away?

The key here is "your home", your name is on the deed.

The church is not personally owned by only one person or group of people. I understand the hurt because of the sweat and blood that was shed to build it, but it's not "yours".

MissBrattified · #9 11-12-2008, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimples

The key here is "your home", your name is on the deed.

The church is not personally owned by only one person or group of people. I understand the hurt because of the sweat and blood that was shed to build it, but it's not "yours".

Good point, Dimples. Also, I think it is being missed that the "church" is made up of people--not buildings.

aak1972 · #10 11-12-2008, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimples

The key here is "your home", your name is on the deed.

The church is not personally owned by only one person or group of people. I understand the hurt because of the sweat and blood that was shed to build it, but it's not "yours".

Please read all my post the board members had to put thier name on the deed and mortgage. And when the church had to have roof repairs and borrowed $112,000 the pastor would not and I mean he flatfoot refused to sign his name to the loan so the board members had to sign thiers. So if this church does not pay this debt the lender will require the guarantors (the board members) to repay this loan.