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11-17-2008, 11:13 AM
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Banned
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
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Originally Posted by mfblume
UR disagrees with what we consider final eternal judgment is and the outcomes, generally speaking. It's really a no-brainer, Antipas.
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Bro Blume, consider the following verse…
Colossians 1: 16 and 20.
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Simple question…
Will God reconcile all things unto himself; yes or no?
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11-17-2008, 11:49 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipas
Bro Blume, consider the following verse…
Colossians 1: 16 and 20.
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Simple question…
Will God reconcile all things unto himself; yes or no? |
Obviously not in the way you are thinking. Bro. you sound UR to me, devil's advocate claims or not. lol
This is what UR does. It takes ALL outside of any context as though everything that exists is in view and every instance means UR.
TO RECONCILE means the purpose is in view to do so. But that does not mean all will respond to that purpose and accept it. ALL can be saved by the blood, but choice in the matter is up to the individual.
So, although the blood was shed in order TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS, it does not mean all will be reconciled.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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11-17-2008, 12:03 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,052
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Obviously not in the way you are thinking. Bro. you sound UR to me, devil's advocate claims or not. lol
This is what UR does. It takes ALL outside of any context as though everything that exists is in view and every instance means UR.
TO RECONCILE means the purpose is in view to do so. But that does not mean all will respond to that purpose and accept it. ALL can be saved by the blood, but choice in the matter is up to the individual.
So, although the blood was shed in order TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS, it does not mean all will be reconciled.
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So your answer is, "No". God fails to reconcile all things unto himself.
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11-17-2008, 12:11 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipas
So your answer is, "No". God fails to reconcile all things unto himself.
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Correct, but that is not a failure on God's part. God wanted it that way -- choice.
Like I said, you cannot say God failed if His purpose was TO RECONCILE all to himself and all are not reconciled. The means He chose in making it our choice did not fail! We chose and some did not. All who chose did choose.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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11-17-2008, 06:08 PM
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crakjak
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: dallas area
Posts: 7,605
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Correct, but that is not a failure on God's part. God wanted it that way -- choice.
Like I said, you cannot say God failed if His purpose was TO RECONCILE all to himself and all are not reconciled. The means He chose in making it our choice did not fail! We chose and some did not. All who chose did choose.
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God made man as he is, he has presented Himself as He is, if between these two facts 99% of mankind is lost, how does that not equal a failure on God's part?
I don't believe God failed that dismally, therefore God is not finished with His creation, and tradition is seriously mistaken. It is called deduction, logical, and reason, which God gave mankind, as well as choice. Choice does not excel above God's purpose of "Savior of the whole world".
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11-17-2008, 06:19 PM
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Jesus is the Christ
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,484
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
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Originally Posted by crakjak
God made man as he is, he has presented Himself as He is, if between these two facts 99% of mankind is lost, how does that not equal a failure on God's part?
I don't believe God failed that dismally, therefore God is not finished with His creation, and tradition is seriously mistaken. It is called deduction, logical, and reason, which God gave mankind, as well as choice. Choice does not excel above God's purpose of "Savior of the whole world".
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Nevertheless, Crakjak -- the UR message waters down faith in the gospel --Stating that "fire'' will purify the person and thus borderlines another gospel.
__________________
If ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24
Mone me, amabo te, si erro
No real problem exists over the use of "The Name" in everthing else done in the Church. Why then should there exist great controversy over the use of the "The Name of the Godhead" in water baptism?
Kevin J. Conner The Name of God p. 92
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11-17-2008, 06:45 PM
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crakjak
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: dallas area
Posts: 7,605
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
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Originally Posted by bkstokes
Nevertheless, Crakjak -- the UR message waters down faith in the gospel --Stating that "fire'' will purify the person and thus borderlines another gospel.
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Not so my friend, UR is the fulfilling of the gospel, the very reason for the gospel. Just as fire in this life causes us to pursue after God, yet it is not the source of our salvation.
According to many, our obedience is what saves, not so, it is the love of God, thru Christ. The following scripture, previously posted by Antipas, is incredibly inclusive.
Colossians 1: 16 and 20.
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Absolutely leaves nothing for endless torture or annihilation, which would be for Satan, rather than God.
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11-17-2008, 09:38 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,052
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkstokes
Nevertheless, Crakjak -- the UR message waters down faith in the gospel --Stating that "fire'' will purify the person and thus borderlines another gospel.
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I don't think it waters it down. If a person is going to obey the gospel...they're going to obey the gospel. If they don't want to no amount of Hell fire scare tactics is going to work. A UR believer can assure anyone that Jesus saves, and will save, those who obey the Gospel will be saved from God's wrath and judgment. A UR believer can also assure the most obstinate and rebellious person that...oh yes...oh yes...they too will one day bow before him as their Lord. They can warn, "God will break you, and it will not be pretty."
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11-17-2008, 12:10 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,052
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Obviously not in the way you are thinking. Bro. you sound UR to me, devil's advocate claims or not. lol
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lol
My wife tells me the same thing sometime when I argue for facts from the opposition. Bro. Blume…I just want to know the truth. I test things, try them, push them, and examine them. Then I ask questions. That’s just the way I study things. And I hold fast to that which is good.
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11-17-2008, 12:12 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipas
lol
My wife tells me the same thing sometime when I argue for facts from the opposition. Bro. Blume…I just want to know the truth. I test things, try them, push them, and examine them. Then I ask questions. That’s just the way I study things. And I hold fast to that which is good.
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Okaaaay, but it sure sounds like you lean that way pretty much. 
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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