Could Barak Obama be the Anti Christ?

[TK Burk]

New Heaven and New Earth: The New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant. As a result, the former heaven (the Jewish Temple) and the former earth (the place the Temple sat, Jerusalem) is now replaced by a New Temple (the Holy Ghost in the redeemed) and a New Earth (the New Jerusalem, which is the Church, the City sitting on a hill that shines as a beacon of light to the world). Jesus said this transformation would happen at the passing of the Old Covenant's Law system: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" (Mat 5:18). So, if we do not currently have a new heaven and a new earth, we would consequently still be under every stipulation of the Law, including animal sacrifice for salvation. (See Mat 5:14; Isa 28:16; 1 Pet 2:4-6; Joh 2:19-21; Eph 5:19-22; Rev 21:1-21)

[shag]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

New Heaven and New Earth: The New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant. As a result, the former heaven (the Jewish Temple) and the former earth (the place the Temple sat, Jerusalem) is now replaced by a New Temple (the Holy Ghost in the redeemed) and a New Earth (the New Jerusalem, which is the Church, the City sitting on a hill that shines as a beacon of light to the world). Jesus said this transformation would happen at the passing of the Old Covenant's Law system: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" (Mat 5:18). So, if we do not currently have a new heaven and a new earth, we would consequently still be under every stipulation of the Law, including animal sacrifice for salvation. (See Mat 5:14; Isa 28:16; 1 Pet 2:4-6; Joh 2:19-21; Eph 5:19-22; Rev 21:1-21)

TK,
I find this interesting and will continue to study it.

I do have a problem believeing that the former heaven was the Temple, and the former earth was Jerusulem, as you wrote. I don't feel that the Jews (even in their "cultural/religous thinking")considered the temple to be heaven, nor would that they consider the temple to even to be a "symbol" of Heaven, please explain to me why and how you see it like that. Thanks.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by shag

TK,
I find this interesting and will continue to study it.

I do have a problem believeing that the former heaven was the Temple, and the former earth was Jerusulem, as you wrote. I don't feel that the Jews (even in their "cultural/religous thinking")considered the temple to be heaven, nor would that they consider the temple to even to be a "symbol" of Heaven, please explain to me why and how you see it like that. Thanks.

Thanks for the reply!

I condensed this down so it wouldn't be too terribly long. I hope this better explains my position.

Controversy over the terms "New Heaven" and "New Earth" develops when men read these as though they refer to some coming atmospheric or comic occurrence rather than leaving them in the biblical context of prophetic symbolism in which they were written.

Isaiah 66:7-8 is about the coming of Jesus and His New Covenant. Isaiah starts this chapter by condemning those who trust in physical things for their salvation: “[W]here is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest” (Isaiah 66:1)? He ends this with a promise that the new heaven and new earth (verses 20-23) will be established with Jews and Gentiles, of whom they will be His priests and Levites. This happened when the New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant, and the former heaven (the Jewish Temple) and former earth (the place the Temple sat—Jerusalem) was replaced by a New Temple (the Holy Ghost in the redeemed) and a New Earth (the New Jerusalem, which is the Church, the City sitting on a hill that shines as a beacon of light to the world). (See Matthew 5:14; Isaiah 28:16; 1 Peter 2:4-6; John 2:19-21; Ephesians 5:19-22; Revelations 21:1-2) When this happens, Isaiah shows that God will receive worship from ALL flesh, year round. Revelation says that the gates of the New Jerusalem are open all the time, which is a reference to the Church’s openness to receive sinners, thusly confirming that it is not for a future fulfillment (See Revelation 21:25). Isaiah 66 ends with verse 24 pronouncing judgment on those who refuse its message. This came to pass during the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem (See Matthew 21:31-45; 23:29-39; Luke 21:6, 20, 24).

Within scriptural context, THE TEMPLE MOUNT WAS WHERE HEAVEN TOUCHED EARTH. Traditionally, from atop its plateau GOD FORMED THE ENTIRE WORLD including ADAM FROM THE DUST OF THE EARTH. It was also said to be the mountain where God asked Abraham to offer Isaac as a burnt sacrifice. Scripturally it was the mount where Isaac's son, Jacob, dreamt of a ladder stretching from its place up into heaven on which angels ascended and descended between its terrestrial and celestial span. Upon waking from this dream, Jacob called this mount "Beth-El," which means "House of God," i.e. "Temple." (See Genesis 28:10-22; 2 Chronicles 5:1-14; Matthew 12:3-4) In the years of King David, he purchased this mountain top after his army captured Jerusalem from the Jebusites. Later, to his son, King Solomon, David designated this mountain to be used for the Temple's building site. (See 2 Samuel 5:6-7, 24:24-25) Then during the New Testament, the Temple's mountain was the podium from where Jesus pronounced the judgment that was soon coming against His generation. (See Matthew 23:36-39, 24:21-23; Mark 13:1-4; Luke 21:5-7)

The heart of the Temple is the Most Holy Place. This is the "room" where man would meet with God once a year on Yom Kippur. This is analogous to all the meetings where man met with God on Mt Moriah. Jesus is the manifested "Holy of Holies."

There are credible sources for this interpretation of the Holy Place. One of these is the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
Ha Kodesh is the Holy Place
4. Figurative
As the outer division of the sanctuary, into which, as yet, not the people, but only their representatives in the priesthood, were admitted while yet the symbols of the people's consecrated life (prayer, light, thanksgiving) were found in it, THE HOLY PLACE MAY BE SAID TO REPRESENT THE PEOPLE'S RELATION TO GOD IN THE EARTHLY LIFE, AS THE HOLY OF HOLIES REPRESENTED GOD'S RELATION TO THE PEOPLE IN A PERFECTED COMMUNION. In the Epistle to the Hebrews, the holy place is not largely dwelt on as compared with the court in which the perfect sacrifice was offered, and the holiest of all into which Christ has now entered (Christ passes “through” the tabernacle into the holiest, Heb_9:11). It pertains, however, evidently to the earthly sphere of Christ's manifestation, even as earth is the present scene of the church's fellowship. THROUGH EARTH, BY THE WAY WHICH CHRIST HAS OPENED UP, THE BELIEVER, ALREADY IN SPIRIT, FINALLY IN FACT, PASSES WITH HIM INTO THE HOLIEST (Heb_10:19; compare Heb_9:8; see Westcott, Hebrews, 233ff).

Kodesh Kodashim is the Holy of Holies:
4. Figurative
In the Epistle to the Hebrews we are taught that the true holy of holies is the heaven into which Jesus has now entered to appear in virtue of His own sacrifice in the presence of God for us (Heb 9:11). Restriction is now removed, and the way into the holiest is made open for all His people (Heb 10:19, 10:20).

Mt Moriah was the place on which the Temple sat. That mountain was the earth on which the approach to heaven was found. That was the old approach that God designed for man to approach His presence. In the New Covenant, man approaches the Almighty God through the Church and Jesus Christ. The Church has the foundational message whereby mankind can be reconciled to God. The Bible confirms this when it describes Jesus as mankind’s "propitiation." This makes Jesus the "MERCY SEAT."

"PROPTIATION," defined by Strong's:

G2435 hilasterion hil-as-tay'-ree-on
Neuter of a derivative of G2433; an expiatory (place or thing), that is, (concretely) an atoning victim, or (specifically) the lid of the Ark (in the Temple): - mercyseat, propitiation.

The Mercy Seat is THE PLACE within the HOLY OF HOLIES where the High Priest could come to make atonement for the sins of all mankind, and could supernaturally communicate with the Lord God.

Romans 3:25
(25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation [MERCY SEAT] through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

This shows Paul was saying Jesus is our "Mercy Seat." Since the Mercy Seat was located within the Temple, and beyond the veil (which is said to now be Jesus' flesh [Hebrews 10:20]—another reference to the Temple) of the Holy of Holies, we can see here another reference to Jesus being our MOST HOLY.

John said that Jesus is our ATONEMENT…

1 John 2:2
(2) And he is the propitiation [atonement] for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Paul said Jesus is our MEETING PLACE [Mercy Seat] through which we can talk with God…

1 Timothy 2:5
(5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

John said that Jesus was THE TEMPLE OF THE NEW JERUSALEM (the Church)…

Revelation 21:22
(22) And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

The term "Holy of Holies" is a rabbinic evasive synonym for "where the presence of God dwells." Every good Apostolic should amen that understanding because "where the presence of God dwells" perfectly describes Jesus!! Jesus WAS WHERE GOD WAS! The Holy of HOLIES is a double emphasis that says "GOD OF GODS." or "LORD of LORDS."

This is why I had said: The New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant. As a result, the former heaven (the Jewish Temple) and the former earth (the place the Temple sat, Jerusalem) is now replaced by a New Temple (the Holy Ghost in the redeemed) and a New Earth (the New Jerusalem, which is the Church, the City sitting on a hill that shines as a beacon of light to the world). Jesus said this transformation would happen at the passing of the Old Covenant's Law system: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" (Mat 5:18). So, if we do not currently have a new heaven and a new earth, we would consequently still be under every stipulation of the Law, including animal sacrifice for salvation (See Mat 5:14; Isa 28:16; 1 Pet 2:4-6; Joh 2:19-21; Eph 2:19-22; Rev 21:1-21).

[deacon blues]

You misinterpret Matt 24 so therefore you have to change obvious meanings of words like "heaven" and "earth" to mean something other than what most elementary school studentd undrstand them to mean in order to fit the paradigm. I suppose when Peter talks about the elements melting with fervent heat that was also fulfilled in 70 AD.

You r well versed in what u believe TK, but I am sorry that it doesn't hold water scripturally. I know u like lengthy debates and u like trying to prove you've got the truth on this, but anyone willing to study these issues will find plenty wrong with preterism. I know what I believe and see in Scripture. I don't need to go on another debate rampage with you to prove anything.

I challenge anyone curious about these issues to search the scriptures and pray. The Lord will guide you through the prophetic passages of his word. But beware of false doctrine concerning these things.

I will respond no further to anymore of these preterist diatribes. (Except with occasional sarcasm )

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

You misinterpret Matt 24 so therefore you have to change obvious meanings of words like "heaven" and "earth" to mean something other than what most elementary school studentd undrstand them to mean in order to fit the paradigm. I suppose when Peter talks about the elements melting with fervent heat that was also fulfilled in 70 AD.

You r well versed in what u believe TK, but I am sorry that it doesn't hold water scripturally. I know u like lengthy debates and u like trying to prove you've got the truth on this, but anyone willing to study these issues will find plenty wrong with preterism. I know what I believe and see in Scripture. I don't need to go on another debate rampage with you to prove anything.

I challenge anyone curious about these issues to search the scriptures and pray. The Lord will guide you through the prophetic passages of his word. But beware of false doctrine concerning these things.

I will respond no further to anymore of these preterist diatribes. (Except with occasional sarcasm )

I'm not sure that TKBurk is totally wrong about everything. Some of the things he wrote in the above post make sense to me. I see that many aren't sure about post, mid or pre-tribulation. I certainly don't have a handle on it, myself. I don't know which view I absolutely believe. I see some things in all views that could be correct. I don't see any view that is totally correct either.

What has astonished me, of late, when I am reading Daniel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, etc. are the references that are actually pointing to the cross and Jesus Christ. I've never really noticed that before. I was looking for "black helicopters". lol

Anyway, not espousing any view. I'm just reading the books for what they are and trying to allow the Word to speak to me.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I'm not sure that TKBurk is totally wrong about everything. Some of the things he wrote in the above post make sense to me. I see that many aren't sure about post, mid or pre-tribulation. I certainly don't have a handle on it, myself. I don't know which view I absolutely believe. I see some things in all views that could be correct. I don't see any view that is totally correct either.

What has astonished me, of late, when I am reading Daniel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, etc. are the references that are actually pointing to the cross and Jesus Christ. I've never really noticed that before. I was looking for "black helicopters". lol

Anyway, not espousing any view. I'm just reading the books for what they are and trying to allow the Word to speak to me.

Amen!! That is what got me to first see Fulfilled Escahtology. When I saw the entire Bible is about Jesus , then the rest began to fall into place.

Jesus is God’s plan. He is the One whose testimony is the spirit of prophecy (See Rev 9:10), and the one to whom we must look to properly interpret the prophecies found within the pages of our Bible (See Joh 14:6; Heb 1:2, 12:2). Jesus said, “Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me” (Joh 5:39). Paul similarly agreed with this when he said, “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith” (Gal 3:24). As we read through the pages of our Bibles, we see that from Genesis to Revelation, the Bible speaks about one master plan, of which Jesus was the focus. He was first mentioned in Gen 3:15 when God said, “And I will put enmity between thee [satan] and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy [satan’s] head, and thou shalt bruise his [Jesus’] heel.” This is, of course, the first promise recorded in our Bibles of Jesus coming as the Savior for mankind. This promise was made at the time of Adam’s fall, and was given as an assurance from God that mankind would someday receive from Him a spiritual reconciliation. This same promise is subsequently mentioned in different ways throughout the Old Testament. The good news is we do not have to wait for this reconciliation to arrive. The Apostle Peter believed this was true because he said he believed Jesus has NOW fulfilled these same promises (Act 3:18-26; 1 Pet 1:9-11).

Jesus was the plan that God made before the foundation of the world: (Rev 13:8) Angels announced His coming (Mat 1:20-25; Luk 1:26-38), a virgin brought Him into this world (Luk 1:26-35), Shepherds were called to His birth (Luk 2:8-17), the Magi came to pay Him homage (Mat 2:1-12), Simeon and Anna prayed to see His salvation’s arrival (Luk 2:22-38), John the Baptist prepared His way (Mat 3; Mar 1:1-11; Luk 3:1-23; Joh 1:19-34), the cross became His plan for the redemption of mankind (Mat 27:35-38; Mar 15:25-28; Luk 23:33-38; Joh 19:18-24; Rev 13:8), an empty tomb was His assurance of His reigning power in heaven and in earth (Mat 28:5, 6; Mar 16:4-6; Luk 24:1-6; Joh 20:6-17), the outpouring of His Holy Ghost on Pentecost was the reuniting of His Spirit with man’s (Act 1:4-8, 2:1-40; Joh 14:17; Rom 8:9), and on and on are the evidences found throughout the New Testament that Jesus was the One who came to fulfill all the redemptive promises found in the Bible.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Amen!! That is what got me to first see Fulfilled Escahtology. When I saw the entire Bible is about Jesus , then the rest began to fall into place.

Jesus is God’s plan. He is the One whose testimony is the spirit of prophecy (See Rev 9:10), and the one to whom we must look to properly interpret the prophecies found within the pages of our Bible (See Joh 14:6; Heb 1:2, 12:2). Jesus said, “Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me” (Joh 5:39). Paul similarly agreed with this when he said, “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith” (Gal 3:24). As we read through the pages of our Bibles, we see that from Genesis to Revelation, the Bible speaks about one master plan, of which Jesus was the focus. He was first mentioned in Gen 3:15 when God said, “And I will put enmity between thee [satan] and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy [satan’s] head, and thou shalt bruise his [Jesus’] heel.” This is, of course, the first promise recorded in our Bibles of Jesus coming as the Savior for mankind. This promise was made at the time of Adam’s fall, and was given as an assurance from God that mankind would someday receive from Him a spiritual reconciliation. This same promise is subsequently mentioned in different ways throughout the Old Testament. The good news is we do not have to wait for this reconciliation to arrive. The Apostle Peter believed this was true because he said he believed Jesus has NOW fulfilled these same promises (Act 3:18-26; 1 Pet 1:9-11).

Jesus was the plan that God made before the foundation of the world: (Rev 13:8) Angels announced His coming (Mat 1:20-25; Luk 1:26-38), a virgin brought Him into this world (Luk 1:26-35), Shepherds were called to His birth (Luk 2:8-17), the Magi came to pay Him homage (Mat 2:1-12), Simeon and Anna prayed to see His salvation’s arrival (Luk 2:22-38), John the Baptist prepared His way (Mat 3; Mar 1:1-11; Luk 3:1-23; Joh 1:19-34), the cross became His plan for the redemption of mankind (Mat 27:35-38; Mar 15:25-28; Luk 23:33-38; Joh 19:18-24; Rev 13:8), an empty tomb was His assurance of His reigning power in heaven and in earth (Mat 28:5, 6; Mar 16:4-6; Luk 24:1-6; Joh 20:6-17), the outpouring of His Holy Ghost on Pentecost was the reuniting of His Spirit with man’s (Act 1:4-8, 2:1-40; Joh 14:17; Rom 8:9), and on and on are the evidences found throughout the New Testament that Jesus was the One who came to fulfill all the redemptive promises found in the Bible.

Good post - Amen!

As I said, I'm still studying a little at a time.

What I do have a problem with is that it appears Revelation is left standing alone or outside, partially, from all the other books. I hope I explained that correctly. It just has never made sense to me. I think everything should blend and tie in from Genesis to Revelation. Some of the teaching I have had, or it could have been the way I perceived it - leaves it hanging alone. I don't know how else to explain that. LOL!

[shag]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

You misinterpret Matt 24 so therefore you have to change obvious meanings of words like "heaven" and "earth" to mean something other than what most elementary school studentd undrstand them to mean in order to fit the paradigm. I suppose when Peter talks about the elements melting with fervent heat that was also fulfilled in 70 AD.

You r well versed in what u believe TK, but I am sorry that it doesn't hold water scripturally. I know u like lengthy debates and u like trying to prove you've got the truth on this, but anyone willing to study these issues will find plenty wrong with preterism. I know what I believe and see in Scripture. I don't need to go on another debate rampage with you to prove anything.

I challenge anyone curious about these issues to search the scriptures and pray. The Lord will guide you through the prophetic passages of his word. But beware of false doctrine concerning these things.

I will respond no further to anymore of these preterist diatribes. (Except with occasional sarcasm )

Luke 21:20 (which parallells Matt. 24:15)“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

You don't believe this scripture was fullfilled in Ad 70, when Jerusulem was wiped out by the armies?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shag

Luke 21:20 (which parallells Matt. 24:15)“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

You don't believe this scripture was fullfilled in Ad 70, when Jerusulem was wiped out by the armies?

Shag, you would not believe the gymnastics people go through to explain that one! The official argument is really silly.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by shag

Luke 21:20 (which parallells Matt. 24:15)“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

You don't believe this scripture was fullfilled in Ad 70, when Jerusulem was wiped out by the armies?

Some believe Luke’s Mount Olivet account is different than what is found in Matthew. This is not true. They are speaking of the same occurrence. The key to see why Luke wrote as he did is found in the opening statements of his gospel account: "It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus." Luke said he had “perfect understanding of ALL THINGS.” He wrote his gospel account to impart these facts to his friend Theophilus. This is also why Luke plainly said that seeing “the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place” was to be understood as seeing the Roman Army surrounding Jerusalem. This is why Matthew exhorted his reader to think it through to get an understanding of what he wrote (See Mat 24:15). Luke simplified this by bluntly telling Theophilus what would occur. Luke was correct. Titus’ army came within Luke’s generation and did surround Jerusalem just as he describe.

The Bible prophesied a three and one-half year (42 month/1260 day) siege against Jerusalem because of her rebellion against God’s Covenant. This began in AD66 when the Roman Emperor Nero gave two simple commands: destroy the city of Jerusalem and level her temple. To accomplish this fiat he picked a father and son to lead his Roman troops. The father was a fifty-seven year old commander named Vespasian, and his ambitious son’s name was Titus. After a series of political events in Rome, Titus began his assault around April, AD70. This was forty years (one generation) to the week from the crucifixion of Christ. Titus’ soldiers breached the third Wall of Jerusalem on May 25, and captured the newer parts of the city. By June they proceeded to enter the second quarter as the Jews withdrew behind the first wall. The Antonia Fortress fell to Titus on July 22, which was followed by the Romans burning the gates of the Temple and entering its courtyards. The Temple was burnt August 10, AD70 (the Jewish Ninth of AV). This is the exact day and month on which the first Temple was burnt years before by the king of Babylon in 586 BC. Romans burned the Lower City, assaulted Herod’s Palace, and entered the Upper City around September 2. This thereby ended the Jewish resistance on September 26, AD70.