OLD? You know whats old? All the finger pointing any time someone in the UPCI or similar group fails God. The finger pointing at the org, the leaders of the org, the pastor, the teachings, the practices, etc., rather than pointing the finger at the individual that has a free will of their own to choose.
Its really really old actually. Been happening since the garden. Adam pointed at the woman, the woman pointed at the serpent, and they all suffered the consequences. But it still all came down to personal choice for both Adam and Eve. I guess they could have blamed God for putting that stupid tree in the garden...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstew
aak, I am all for discourse, but what I read here went way beyond questions being asked. There were direct, wild, and illogical statements made that flew in the face of many people's experiences. I hope I have not offended you in this thread, and I personally don't mind answering any question.
Can you guys please give me an example of the wild allegations made by myself or AAK? We added to the discussion a few issues that we deemed very specific to Pentecostalism and the Oneness movement and possible reasons why so many young folks are leaving. We all know that the youth of every other denomination are leaving also but I am not so sure that they are leaving for the same reasons.
If you want to take issue with these then please do so but don't rant and rave about how we are attacking. Almost 100% of all that I talk to that leave the UPC have the same issues with the out of control altar calls and most of them consider it just a bunch of hype and some even question if God is even real after seeing these displays.
Can you guys please give me an example of the wild allegations made by myself or AAK? We added to the discussion a few issues that we deemed very specific to Pentecostalism and the Oneness movement and possible reasons why so many young folks are leaving. We all know that the youth of every other denomination are leaving also but I am not so sure that they are leaving for the same reasons.
If you want to take issue with these then please do so but don't rant and rave about how we are attacking. Almost 100% of all that I talk to that leave the UPC have the same issues with the out of control altar calls and most of them consider it just a bunch of hype and some even question if God is even real after seeing these displays.
DG, I did not specify that you two were making all the wild allegations. If you look back through the thread, they are there as plain as day and it just did not make sense to me.
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DG, I did not specify that you two were making all the wild allegations. If you look back through the thread, they are there as plain as day and it just did not make sense to me.
Ok, no problem but I thought you already dealt with that person.
OLD? You know whats old? All the finger pointing any time someone in the UPCI or similar group fails God. The finger pointing at the org, the leaders of the org, the pastor, the teachings, the practices, etc., rather than pointing the finger at the individual that has a free will of their own to choose.
Its really really old actually. Been happening since the garden. Adam pointed at the woman, the woman pointed at the serpent, and they all suffered the consequences. But it still all came down to personal choice for both Adam and Eve. I guess they could have blamed God for putting that stupid tree in the garden...
Quote:
Originally Posted by aak1972
I think delta and I have both had the same experience when it comes to getting any honest question answered. I am not pointing fingers but it has seemed if you question anything you get blasted.
It's not just a matter of discussing an issue or asking questions. Its the tone and the spirit in which its being "discussed". In case you havent noticed yet, there are some who always have a negative agenda whenever the UPC is being discussed. The negativity of their tone is so obvious that they couldnt hide it even if they tried. After a while that gets tiresome. Its the same "finger-pointing, blame the org, blame the doctine/blame the church culture/ the strict pastor, or blame whatever else" mentality.
Yes, we know no org is perfect, and discusssion of the issues within an org can be done in a constructive way and yeild some good. But the consistent hyper-critical, moaning, groaning, finger pointing and accusatory tone that some people always bring to the discussion is not productive at all. With some of these folks, all it is is another opportunity to "vent" once again against the organization they left... an organization which some of them clearly still have bad feelings about.
This mudslinging disguised as "discussion of the issues" becomes very transparent after a while.
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
It's not just a matter of discussing an issue or asking questions. Its the tone and the spirit in which its being "discussed". In case you havent noticed yet, there are some who always have a negative agenda whenever the UPC is being discussed. The negativity of their tone is so obvious that they couldnt hide it even if they tried. After a while that gets tiresome. Its the same "finger-pointing, blame the org, blame the doctine/blame the church culture/ the strict pastor, or blame whatever else" mentality.
Yes, we know no org is perfect, and discusssion of the issues within an org can be done in a constructive way and yeild some good. But the consistent hyper-critical, moaning, groaning, finger pointing and accusatory tone that some people always bring to the discussion is not productive at all. With some of these folks, all it is is another opportunity to "vent" once again against the organization they left... an organization which some of them clearly still have bad feelings about.
This mudslinging disguised as "discussion of the issues" becomes very transparent after a while.
Exactly.
In general, I have no problem with people discussing the UPCI in a negative light. In many cases, I'm very understanding because I have personal knowledge of where the person is coming from and what they have been through. Or perhaps I've experienced some of the same myself.
I'm not stupid. I know the UPC isn't perfect. And I'm definitely not a "stick your head in the sand" type of person.
But there is a huge difference between constructive criticism and/or seeking honest answers and just wanting some hot topic to gossip about and/or seeking to feed ones own personal grudge.
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In general, I have no problem with people discussing the UPCI in a negative light. In many cases, I'm very understanding because I have personal knowledge of where the person is coming from and what they have been through. Or perhaps I've experienced some of the same myself.
I'm not stupid. I know the UPC isn't perfect. And I'm definitely not a "stick your head in the sand" type of person.
But there is a huge difference between constructive criticism and/or seeking honest answers and just wanting some hot topic to gossip about and/or seeking to feed ones own personal grudge.
LadyRev, if you experienced something that personally hurt you wouldn't you want to help others get away from the same thing. Yes, I learned a lot in the UPC and was there for 27 years but I wouldn't want to go back however leaving was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. I know there are others who are trying to find answers too and if this forum can support them out of their situation then that is a good thing. Many won't have to leave their church or the organization but they can at least learn enough to help them have a healthy relationship with Christ.
LadyRev, if you experienced something that personally hurt you wouldn't you want to help others get away from the same thing. Yes, I learned a lot in the UPC and was there for 27 years but I wouldn't want to go back however leaving was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. I know there are others who are trying to find answers too and if this forum can support them out of their situation then that is a good thing. Many won't have to leave their church or the organization but they can at least learn enough to help them have a healthy relationship with Christ.
Actually, I do try to help people. But I don't always believe leaving is the best thing for all people. However, if someone chooses to leave, I will still be there to help them in any way I can, if they want help that is. Sometimes all I can do is be a friend or an ear.
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"The only thing worse than murder in the desert is to know where the water is and not tell it!"
LadyRev, if you experienced something that personally hurt you wouldn't you want to help others get away from the same thing. Yes, I learned a lot in the UPC and was there for 27 years but I wouldn't want to go back however leaving was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. I know there are others who are trying to find answers too and if this forum can support them out of their situation then that is a good thing. Many won't have to leave their church or the organization but they can at least learn enough to help them have a healthy relationship with Christ.
It sounds as if you feel it is God's will for you to try to "help" people to "get away" from the UPC. Is that the case?
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
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