Kings of Leon

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by LadyRev

OLD? You know whats old? All the finger pointing any time someone in the UPCI or similar group fails God. The finger pointing at the org, the leaders of the org, the pastor, the teachings, the practices, etc., rather than pointing the finger at the individual that has a free will of their own to choose.

Its really really old actually. Been happening since the garden. Adam pointed at the woman, the woman pointed at the serpent, and they all suffered the consequences. But it still all came down to personal choice for both Adam and Eve. I guess they could have blamed God for putting that stupid tree in the garden...

Originally Posted by aak1972

I think delta and I have both had the same experience when it comes to getting any honest question answered. I am not pointing fingers but it has seemed if you question anything you get blasted.

It's not just a matter of discussing an issue or asking questions. Its the tone and the spirit in which its being "discussed". In case you havent noticed yet, there are some who always have a negative agenda whenever the UPC is being discussed. The negativity of their tone is so obvious that they couldnt hide it even if they tried. After a while that gets tiresome. Its the same "finger-pointing, blame the org, blame the doctine/blame the church culture/ the strict pastor, or blame whatever else" mentality.

Yes, we know no org is perfect, and discusssion of the issues within an org can be done in a constructive way and yeild some good. But the consistent hyper-critical, moaning, groaning, finger pointing and accusatory tone that some people always bring to the discussion is not productive at all. With some of these folks, all it is is another opportunity to "vent" once again against the organization they left... an organization which some of them clearly still have bad feelings about.

This mudslinging disguised as "discussion of the issues" becomes very transparent after a while.

[LadyRev]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

It's not just a matter of discussing an issue or asking questions. Its the tone and the spirit in which its being "discussed". In case you havent noticed yet, there are some who always have a negative agenda whenever the UPC is being discussed. The negativity of their tone is so obvious that they couldnt hide it even if they tried. After a while that gets tiresome. Its the same "finger-pointing, blame the org, blame the doctine/blame the church culture/ the strict pastor, or blame whatever else" mentality.

Yes, we know no org is perfect, and discusssion of the issues within an org can be done in a constructive way and yeild some good. But the consistent hyper-critical, moaning, groaning, finger pointing and accusatory tone that some people always bring to the discussion is not productive at all. With some of these folks, all it is is another opportunity to "vent" once again against the organization they left... an organization which some of them clearly still have bad feelings about.

This mudslinging disguised as "discussion of the issues" becomes very transparent after a while.

Exactly.

In general, I have no problem with people discussing the UPCI in a negative light. In many cases, I'm very understanding because I have personal knowledge of where the person is coming from and what they have been through. Or perhaps I've experienced some of the same myself.

I'm not stupid. I know the UPC isn't perfect. And I'm definitely not a "stick your head in the sand" type of person.

But there is a huge difference between constructive criticism and/or seeking honest answers and just wanting some hot topic to gossip about and/or seeking to feed ones own personal grudge.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by LadyRev

Exactly.

In general, I have no problem with people discussing the UPCI in a negative light. In many cases, I'm very understanding because I have personal knowledge of where the person is coming from and what they have been through. Or perhaps I've experienced some of the same myself.

I'm not stupid. I know the UPC isn't perfect. And I'm definitely not a "stick your head in the sand" type of person.

But there is a huge difference between constructive criticism and/or seeking honest answers and just wanting some hot topic to gossip about and/or seeking to feed ones own personal grudge.

LadyRev, if you experienced something that personally hurt you wouldn't you want to help others get away from the same thing. Yes, I learned a lot in the UPC and was there for 27 years but I wouldn't want to go back however leaving was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. I know there are others who are trying to find answers too and if this forum can support them out of their situation then that is a good thing. Many won't have to leave their church or the organization but they can at least learn enough to help them have a healthy relationship with Christ.

[LadyRev]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

LadyRev, if you experienced something that personally hurt you wouldn't you want to help others get away from the same thing. Yes, I learned a lot in the UPC and was there for 27 years but I wouldn't want to go back however leaving was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. I know there are others who are trying to find answers too and if this forum can support them out of their situation then that is a good thing. Many won't have to leave their church or the organization but they can at least learn enough to help them have a healthy relationship with Christ.

Actually, I do try to help people. But I don't always believe leaving is the best thing for all people. However, if someone chooses to leave, I will still be there to help them in any way I can, if they want help that is. Sometimes all I can do is be a friend or an ear.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

LadyRev, if you experienced something that personally hurt you wouldn't you want to help others get away from the same thing. Yes, I learned a lot in the UPC and was there for 27 years but I wouldn't want to go back however leaving was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. I know there are others who are trying to find answers too and if this forum can support them out of their situation then that is a good thing. Many won't have to leave their church or the organization but they can at least learn enough to help them have a healthy relationship with Christ.

It sounds as if you feel it is God's will for you to try to "help" people to "get away" from the UPC. Is that the case?