Just Wondering.....

[ILG]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Wow Ron, I guess I could be awarded "The Bob Newhart" award for that.

When you asked my permission, I knew I didn't care, but I couldn't remember what I had said......lol!

It's blunt, but I'd probably say it again today. I am glad that it helped you.

Not saying you were wrong but when I hear words like that, I bristle, I guess because before I got into the UPC I knew what it was like to have compassionate listeners. Now, granted, they were probably too "compassionate". When I got into the church, I realized that some people had too much compassion, read:liberalism and too much whining going on. So, I followed what the church told me. I worked on myself a huge amount and wore all the scriptures that said things like if you see a speck in your brother's eye, take out the mote in your own. And I was miserable, but working on myself a lot. Many years later, I realized that the church is often on the other side of the road, kind of like a knee jerk reaction to too much whining.....and they don't allow any compassion. At least that was my personal experience in the ultra-con world. So, when I hear people saying to suck it up, I hate that and I want to say STOP IT~! LOL! But, indeed, sometimes that is what people need to hear. Sounds like it helped Ron. More often than not, though, in the church I think more compassion is needed.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by ILG

Not saying you were wrong but when I hear words like that, I bristle, I guess because before I got into the UPC I knew what it was like to have compassionate listeners. Now, granted, they were probably too "compassionate". When I got into the church, I realized that some people had too much compassion, read:liberalism and too much whining going on. So, I followed what the church told me. I worked on myself a huge amount and wore all the scriptures that said things like if you see a speck in your brother's eye, take out the mote in your own. And I was miserable, but working on myself a lot. Many years later, I realized that the church is often on the other side of the road, kind of like a knee jerk reaction to too much whining.....and they don't allow any compassion. At least that was my personal experience in the ultra-con world. So, when I hear people saying to suck it up, I hate that and I want to say STOP IT~! LOL! But, indeed, sometimes that is what people need to hear. Sounds like it helped Ron. More often than not, though, in the church I think more compassion is needed.

True, compassion has many aspects & I think following the leading of the Lord
is needed if you are going to truly minister to someone.

A person who nurses thier hurts & offenses with out letting go & forgive them is being done a disservice as well if people just molly coddle them as well.

Just two sides of a coin.

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by ILG

Not saying you were wrong but when I hear words like that, I bristle, I guess because before I got into the UPC I knew what it was like to have compassionate listeners. Now, granted, they were probably too "compassionate". When I got into the church, I realized that some people had too much compassion, read:liberalism and too much whining going on. So, I followed what the church told me. I worked on myself a huge amount and wore all the scriptures that said things like if you see a speck in your brother's eye, take out the mote in your own. And I was miserable, but working on myself a lot. Many years later, I realized that the church is often on the other side of the road, kind of like a knee jerk reaction to too much whining.....and they don't allow any compassion. At least that was my personal experience in the ultra-con world. So, when I hear people saying to suck it up, I hate that and I want to say STOP IT~! LOL! But, indeed, sometimes that is what people need to hear. Sounds like it helped Ron. More often than not, though, in the church I think more compassion is needed.

I was very blessed, especially when I was a youth in the church. At that time, I was in my teens (a time when EVERYTHING is a crisis, doncha know! LOL). Add to that the fact that I did not have any family members in the church. Just me. And I had a very wonderful pastor, but very strict. I was in trouble all the time. Imagine that! Sometimes, of course, I will admit, it was my own doing. Believe it or not (duh!) I actually did things just to get in trouble. It was a good way to get attention. LOL

But it also made me more angry more times than you can imagine! And I would sometimes get very hurt by things that were required of me but not required of kids whose parents were in church. I felt that that was a double standard. Maybe it was even. Doesn't matter now.

What matters is that I had a wonderful friend who very clearly helped me to understand that when my pastor required things of me that he didn't require of others, it was never because he didn't like me. In fact, it was the opposite. He did like me. And he loved my soul. And did what he did because he honestly felt it was what he needed to do to make sure that my soul was saved in the end.

I guess that I am saying all of that just so I can say this: While I no longer live the Apostolic lifestyle, I don't harbor bad or hurt feelings about what was done when I was in the church. I could. I could say, "Oh my goodness! My pastors were all tyrants! They made me tow the line. They expected things of me that they didn't expect of others who had parents in the church. They made me dress right, act right, tithe, pray every day, etc., etc., etc. Weren't they horrible to me? They didn't expect the same of the other kids!" But instead, I choose to say, "Thank you, God, for pastors who loved me like their own. Who loved me enough to require things of me that THEY thought necessary for salvation." I don't agree with them now. I don't think those things are necessary for salvation. But I appreciate the fact that they loved me enough to want God's best for me.

So sometimes - not always - but sometimes, the difference is not in what was done to us, but in our attitudes towards what was done to us. And sometimes we need to dig a little deeper to understand the motivations of those who did the things.

I am not in any way saying that there are not bad people who would do bad things just because they can. But I think that more often than not, when something happens, it is usually not said or done for those reasons. Sometimes the love is mis-guided. But it is love just the same.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Margies3

I was very blessed, especially when I was a youth in the church. At that time, I was in my teens (a time when EVERYTHING is a crisis, doncha know! LOL). Add to that the fact that I did not have any family members in the church. Just me. And I had a very wonderful pastor, but very strict. I was in trouble all the time. Imagine that! Sometimes, of course, I will admit, it was my own doing. Believe it or not (duh!) I actually did things just to get in trouble. It was a good way to get attention. LOL

But it also made me more angry more times than you can imagine! And I would sometimes get very hurt by things that were required of me but not required of kids whose parents were in church. I felt that that was a double standard. Maybe it was even. Doesn't matter now.

What matters is that I had a wonderful friend who very clearly helped me to understand that when my pastor required things of me that he didn't require of others, it was never because he didn't like me. In fact, it was the opposite. He did like me. And he loved my soul. And did what he did because he honestly felt it was what he needed to do to make sure that my soul was saved in the end.

I guess that I am saying all of that just so I can say this: While I no longer live the Apostolic lifestyle, I don't harbor bad or hurt feelings about what was done when I was in the church. I could. I could say, "Oh my goodness! My pastors were all tyrants! They made me tow the line. They expected things of me that they didn't expect of others who had parents in the church. They made me dress right, act right, tithe, pray every day, etc., etc., etc. Weren't they horrible to me? They didn't expect the same of the other kids!" But instead, I choose to say, "Thank you, God, for pastors who loved me like their own. Who loved me enough to require things of me that THEY thought necessary for salvation." I don't agree with them now. I don't think those things are necessary for salvation. But I appreciate the fact that they loved me enough to want God's best for me.

So sometimes - not always - but sometimes, the difference is not in what was done to us, but in our attitudes towards what was done to us. And sometimes we need to dig a little deeper to understand the motivations of those who did the things.

I am not in any way saying that there are not bad people who would do bad things just because they can. But I think that more often than not, when something happens, it is usually not said or done for those reasons. Sometimes the love is mis-guided. But it is love just the same.

I grew up under a pastor that was never harsh, but very loving. And loving enough to correct me when I was wrong. And boy was I wrong a lot. I did things for attention too. But he never hurt my spirit at all. He would just quietly correct me. I did get called down once from the pulpit, I never forgot that either. It was not mean, but he did expect more from me than disrespecting God in the church. As I was a singer from the time I was very young, I think I needed his guidance in that way. To whom much is given, much is required. I was used of God then in ways I have not been used since.
And even when I was in sin, I knew that I could always turn to God and His people for love.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by LadyCoonskinner

Alright Peeps, thanks for the kind words. But this is not the reason for this thread.

I really wonder why we are painted with such a broad brush. So many times, when people get hurt, they allow bitterness to set in and will not deal with it, because it is too painful. I know, because been there, done that. You MUST deal with bitterness as it comes.

We sometimes make unwise choices and then blame the people that we are associated with and make them the scapegoat and the reason we don't allow God to heal us.

I know minister who made a mighty big mistake and had an affair on his wife. She forgave him, but she had so much trouble and never really got over her bitterness toward the lady who messed up her marriage. In her bitterness, she allowed the lady to come between her and her God. In the end, the whole family backslid and messed alot of people up. All because bitterness, not just on her part but her children's also, was not properly dealt with. My husband has never commited adultery on me and I can't imagine the pain she had to deal with, although the Lord did allow me to help carry her and be there for her, but the bitterness clouded judgement and they really have never gotten over it.

So many times, on this forum, that is what I see. Not everyone that has walked away has bitterness that is not dealt with, but many of the people have been wounded in the house of their friends, I have been many times, and I'm sure it will happen again, because I choose to love people. I can't blame them for the mistakes I choose to make. I sure don't blame an organization or a group of people. Sure, if I get hit in the head by 20 people with a white shirt on, the next white shirted person I see, I'll probably duck and hide, but that doesn't make them bad because they happen to be dressed like the other offenders. I hope I'm making sense. I'm not casting judgement on others, but my goodness folks, just because I believe holiness stronger than most of you, doesn't put on the America's Most Wanted List.

I'm just like you, I get dressed on leg at a time. I may not agree with you in some stances you take, but that doesn't make you an idiot in my book. Maybe misguided or mistaken but not an enemy. That's what we need to realize, we are not enemies, just because I don't see things the way you do. Yes, I react over my faith being attacked. I didn't call names, just made a statement and then went from being "Sister" to "Mrs." Sorry that's just not right.

Many times, I have considered leaving this place, but I have really come to love and appreciate the people on here, well, some of them......and am thankful that I can come here and have fun and sometimes, when I need to..vent. I'm thankful that I can be myself, but if I EVER start attacking people and calling them names because I'm in a bad mood or I've had a rough week, I hope someone has enough compassion for me AND MY CALLING to say "Hey, now wait a minute.." Rico has done that in the past and made me stop and think about what I was saying. I am thankful that he cared enough for me and my reputation and my husband's ministry to call my hand on my attitude. Did I like, No...not at firtst, but he made sense when I calmed down and looked at the situation calmly.

I am not the judge.....(thank the Lord..) but I think we need to ALL take a step back and look at things with a new "set of eyes."

I would like to chime in with a few thoughts on this subject, as we all know that not to long ago I was in a pretty dark place.

In a way, I agree with all of you. Whereas I agree that living in bitterness and dwelling on past hurts is not a good thing in the long term, I think sometimes we try to rush people to heal on our time schedule. Sometimes it's easy for us on the outside to see the right answers, and we know how much better off they'll be when they are able to move beyond their painful experience.

I was in so much pain, I was hurting so much, and sometimes it took everything I had to keep from giving up. It scares me now to think how close I once was to that, I just wanted the suffering to end. And yet somehow, someway, I held on.

Regardless of the good intentions of others, every time I was told to move on, get past it, to suck it up, or quit whining, all I heard was "Your pain is unimportant. Nobody care's about your suffering. Your experiences are nothing."

Can you see how that would add insult to injury?

In a way, it's the opposite end of the same coin that has frustrated you. You have fought many battles for your faith. You have passed through many obstacles, and suffered your own pains. And to have someone demean that, and make it into nothing, is the worst of insults.

It is in this that I can truly see the miracle that has occurred in my own life. It is why I wouldn't for all the money in the world change one single step of my spiritual journey.

It is God through His Spirit in me that led me, and taught me, and gave me revelation, that saved me from the brink. It is God, through His Spirit in you that led you and gave you strength and perseverance.

I got all caught up in how happy I am now, that I have forgotten what the point of this post was (if any)......(to be fair, I am at work, and have gotten interrupted about 12 times). I suppose I could delete it (which I end up doing 90% of the time), but I think I will just post it and hope that it makes any lick of sense at all

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I would like to chime in with a few thoughts on this subject, as we all know that not to long ago I was in a pretty dark place.

In a way, I agree with all of you. Whereas I agree that living in bitterness and dwelling on past hurts is not a good thing in the long term, I think sometimes we try to rush people to heal on our time schedule. Sometimes it's easy for us on the outside to see the right answers, and we know how much better off they'll be when they are able to move beyond their painful experience.

I was in so much pain, I was hurting so much, and sometimes it took everything I had to keep from giving up. It scares me now to think how close I once was to that, I just wanted the suffering to end. And yet somehow, someway, I held on.

Regardless of the good intentions of others, every time I was told to move on, get past it, to suck it up, or quit whining, all I heard was "Your pain is unimportant. Nobody care's about your suffering. Your experiences are nothing."

Can you see how that would add insult to injury?

In a way, it's the opposite end of the same coin that has frustrated you. You have fought many battles for your faith. You have passed through many obstacles, and suffered your own pains. And to have someone demean that, and make it into nothing, is the worst of insults.

It is in this that I can truly see the miracle that has occurred in my own life. It is why I wouldn't for all the money in the world change one single step of my spiritual journey.

It is God through His Spirit in me that led me, and taught me, and gave me revelation, that saved me from the brink. It is God, through His Spirit in you that led you and gave you strength and perseverance.

I got all caught up in how happy I am now, that I have forgotten what the point of this post was (if any)......(to be fair, I am at work, and have gotten interrupted about 12 times). I suppose I could delete it (which I end up doing 90% of the time), but I think I will just post it and hope that it makes any lick of sense at all

Oh, Michelle, I just love you!!!!!

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Oh, Michelle, I just love you!!!!!

Oh, I Love you too!

For the record, I think my post was supposed to be about how our relationship with God is about learning to trust in him in your spiritual walk. And how He speaks to each of us differently, and according to our own pace.

And sometimes I think people need to have a pity party sometimes, and they need someone to understand and hug them and say "I'm sorry you're hurting, and that these bad things have happened to you." And sometimes they need someone to give them a hand up, out of the bitter boat. It makes you want to pray "Lord, help me to be the person my brother/sister needs today. If they need encouragement, let me be a cheerleader. If they need sympathy, let me be a shoulder to cry on. If they need cheering up, make me funny (-er than usual, )"

Wasn't it Paul say something about becoming different things for different people? I better stop before I accidentally quote scripture or something

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I would like to chime in with a few thoughts on this subject, as we all know that not to long ago I was in a pretty dark place.

In a way, I agree with all of you. Whereas I agree that living in bitterness and dwelling on past hurts is not a good thing in the long term, I think sometimes we try to rush people to heal on our time schedule. Sometimes it's easy for us on the outside to see the right answers, and we know how much better off they'll be when they are able to move beyond their painful experience.

I was in so much pain, I was hurting so much, and sometimes it took everything I had to keep from giving up. It scares me now to think how close I once was to that, I just wanted the suffering to end. And yet somehow, someway, I held on.

Regardless of the good intentions of others, every time I was told to move on, get past it, to suck it up, or quit whining, all I heard was "Your pain is unimportant. Nobody care's about your suffering. Your experiences are nothing."

Can you see how that would add insult to injury?

In a way, it's the opposite end of the same coin that has frustrated you. You have fought many battles for your faith. You have passed through many obstacles, and suffered your own pains. And to have someone demean that, and make it into nothing, is the worst of insults.

It is in this that I can truly see the miracle that has occurred in my own life. It is why I wouldn't for all the money in the world change one single step of my spiritual journey.

It is God through His Spirit in me that led me, and taught me, and gave me revelation, that saved me from the brink. It is God, through His Spirit in you that led you and gave you strength and perseverance.

I got all caught up in how happy I am now, that I have forgotten what the point of this post was (if any)......(to be fair, I am at work, and have gotten interrupted about 12 times). I suppose I could delete it (which I end up doing 90% of the time), but I think I will just post it and hope that it makes any lick of sense at all

Makes perfect sense. It is like grieving...many people can tell you, "Oh, it's been a year you need to get over it..." But any grief, loss, or hurt is an individual thing and the timing is up to God and the individual. What others assume is "holding onto the pain of victimization" is just letting it out so the healing can continue until personal closure..


Relationship has to be more than forum posts but many years of knowing an individual before one can offer "the truth in love". More damage is caused by offering advice and your opinion without the relationship.

In the course of counseling; the first thing that must be done is securing a relationship with a client before embarking on the journey of pain, acceptance, and resolution.

Blessings, Rhoni

P.S. BTW Mich, the post is awesome!!