Loren Yadon's: Tragedies of War????

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

The thing is is that Dan calls threestepper's heretics. He has taken on the mantle of those who are divisive amongst the threestepper crowd and now uses it to support the onestepper doctrine in the same divisive manner.

It's really sad we couldn't stay in the same fellowship (UPC) and fellowship the difference because the end result is the same.

I understand that sentiment... but I definitely don't believe that the end result is necessarily the same.

In many [or most?] 1-stepper Pentecostal churches (whether Oneness or Trinitarian), the Holy Ghost baptism is not emphasized or preached with a sense of urgency. In such places, where the Holy Ghost baptism is often taught as being just an added "second blessing", people will often sit in those churches for years and not seek the Holy Ghost because they've been told they're "okay" simply because they "accepted Jesus". (I've known several such people personally, including one man who told me he didnt care about seeking the Holy Ghost infilling because... in his words: "I dont want spiritual gifts". )

An example that's been discussed on this forum before is the Assemblies of God denomination, whose own statistics showed that only about 25% of their "converts" had gotten water baptized and 20% had received the Holy Ghost baptism. (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...07&postcount=7)
That's the kind of thing that can and does happen in environments where water baptism and Holy Ghost infilling are taught as things that are "good to have", but not essential to be saved.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I understand that sentiment... but I definitely don't believe that the end result is necessarily the same.

In many [or most?] 1-stepper Pentecostal churches (whether Oneness or Trinitarian), the Holy Ghost baptism is not emphasized or preached with a sense of urgency. In such places, where the Holy Ghost baptism is often taught as being just an added "second blessing", people will often sit in those churches for years and not seek the Holy Ghost because they've been told they're "okay" simply because they "accepted Jesus". (I've known several such people personally, including one man who told me he didnt care about seeking the Holy Ghost infilling because... in his words: "I dont want spiritual gifts". )

An example that's been discussed on this forum before is the Assemblies of God denomination, whose own statistics showed that only about 25% of their "converts" had gotten water baptized and 20% had received the Holy Ghost baptism. (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...07&postcount=7)
That's the kind of thing that can and does happen in environments where water baptism and Holy Ghost infilling are taught as things that are "good to have", but not essential to be saved.

Do you think it was a mistake for the PCI and the PAJC to unite?

[Billy Boy]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Do you think it was a mistake for the PCI and the PAJC to unite?

Nope, It was a good thing- it probably would not happen today though, we have gone backwards! The more uniting the better, in my book!

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Billy Boy

Nope, It was a good thing- it probably would not happen today though, we have gone backwards! The more uniting the better, in my book!

I would love for LY to preach to our fellowship.

[MrMasterMind]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Do you think it was a mistake for the PCI and the PAJC to unite?

Absolutely, for the PCI

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by MrMasterMind

Absolutely, for the PCI

True, the PAJC didn't live up to their end of the bargain because of the Westburg faction.

Were there any PAJC men that were grieved with the outcome of the merger? Were there any PAJC men that didn't agree with the AS and not sign it?

[MrMasterMind]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

True, the PAJC didn't live up to their end of the bargain because of the Westburg faction.

WOW you said a mouthful there.

Were there any PAJC men that were grieved with the outcome of the merger? Were there any PAJC men that didn't agree with the AS and not sign it?

The only ones I am aware of personally is a couple honorable men who did it over "standards". Most of the PCI I personally know did it over doctrine.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Do you think it was a mistake for the PCI and the PAJC to unite?

I'll put it this way:

If I was a member of whatever board was voting on the decision to merge, I would have voted no.

[Billy Boy]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I'll put it this way:

If I was a member of whatever board was voting on the decision to merge, I would have voted no.

Which organization was not a part of the body of Christ? (according to your vote?)

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Billy Boy

Which organization was not a part of the body of Christ? (according to your vote?)

Frankly, the very question is off-base, to begin with.
I said nothing about anyone not being in the body of Christ, did I?

I believe anyone who is baptized in Jesus' name and filled with the Holy Ghost is a member of the body of Christ. That is not the issue.

The issue is that (for reasons I'd rather not rehash all over again now) I do not believe that the plan of salvation as taught by PCI believers is biblically correct. So, to avoid future conflict and confusion, I would have voted against a merger of 2 organizations that have 2 differing views of what the plan of salvation is.