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  #1  
Old 03-18-2009, 05:38 PM
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tbpew tbpew is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven View Post
Luke 1:35
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 10:36
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God ?

Matt 16:16-17
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


Let's just simply let the Scripture speak for itself. Jesus is without a doubt, the Son of God! Some seem to shy away from this truth. Others want to say, "Oh I know it says that but we really know he is ........" [Whatever it is they are trying to prove]
Jesus told Peter, that the revelation is that, he indeed is the Son of God!
I'm afraid we "oneness" believers are close to being like the Mormons and JW's with extra-Biblical "revelations" we conjured up somewhere. This post won't go over well with some but that's alright the Truth will "dawn" eventually on them. To glibly pass over the truth that there is a Father and there is a Son in the Word, is to miss the glorious truth that God wants to perform in us as sons of God. This is what this Grand Plan of God is all about.

Raven
Raven,
Thanks for reminding those who read your post, that if we let the scripture speak, it will speak of Jesus being the Son of God.

I am confident that the firstfruits and the harvest are always of the same composition.

Your words:
To glibly pass over the truth that there is a Father and there is a Son in the Word, is to miss the glorious truth that God wants to perform in us as sons of God. This is what this Grand Plan of God is all about.
AMEN and AMEN.

I Tim 3:16 is about the mystery of GODLINESS; the creature being partaker in (recipient of) the divine nature.

Seen again in 2Pt 1:3-4
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


Thanks for caring enough to share something that bears witness in your spirit and witnessed in the scripture; something that many only give lip service, recitation.
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  #2  
Old 03-18-2009, 06:57 PM
Nina Nina is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbpew View Post
Raven,
Thanks for reminding those who read your post, that if we let the scripture speak, it will speak of Jesus being the Son of God.
tbpew,
I respect You. You're one of the few posters I try to keep up with.

Are You saying that Jesus ISN"T God?

Thanks,
Nina
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  #3  
Old 03-18-2009, 07:36 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Thomas said to Jesus "My Lord and My God", in greek is literally "The Lord of me and the God of me"

The Definite article makes theos "God" not "a god"

joh 20:28 Thomas replied to him, "My Lord and my God!"
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #4  
Old 03-18-2009, 08:28 PM
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tbpew tbpew is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Nina,
thank you for the kind words.

I will attempt to speak using words that I hope are consistent enough with classical oneness speak to avoid being perceived as being purposefully "obtuse".

The exact question that will illuminate the aspects of my departure from most outspoken keepers of oneness, is "Is the Son God?" I do not believe that the Son of God is God.

I am one who understands (and teaches) that the witness of scripture reveals that God was IN Christ, NOT that God BECAME the Christ.

Christ is a word that applies to CREATION not creator.
Christ is a word that speaks of the object or recipient of the anointing NOT the anoint-er.
The deity of Christ is the anointing that establishes the vessel as the Christ.

FATHERS do not become their own Sons. To use words in this manner would require that we trash the entire common witness of our familiar language usage. God did not inspire word choices that contradict such a plain understanding of usage.

I believe that scripture plainly instructs that God begat (fathered, supplied the seed) that resulted in a life in the womb of Mary. God's own word became flesh when it found agreement with the ovum of Joseph's betrothed, the lineage of David.
Luke 1:35 provides this witness:
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Why is it so difficult for many oneness folks to believe that God SENT his only begotten Son into the world?
Answer: Because they teach and believe that God BECAME a man, rather than God has a Son in whom he [God] purposed to indwell; to make his own habitation without the hands of men involved. A last Adam, a true kinsman redeemer, must be a man of like persuasion as was the first Adam. The first Adam was not 'God becoming a man', the last Adam was not 'God becoming a man'. God is not a man, nor has God added to himself the form of a man.

God's word and the Sons of God are MANIFESTATIONS of God in the midst of creation. God indwelling his children renders God apparent (able to be preceived)within the created realm. The deity of Christ is the anointing.

If you see the vessel that God is indwelling, you have seen God.

When you see the son, in whom the father is indwelling, you have seen the father.

So, you ask me to answer the question, is Jesus God?

If his Son is where God makes his abode, then looking at Jesus, you were looking at the only visible part of an invisible God. You would be looking at the express image of an invisible God. When you have seen Jesus you have seen the father. So is Jesus God, YES!, NO!.....it depends on how you speak concerning the scene you are witnessing.
Yes, Jesus is God because the Father is with the Son (the Son is the tabernacle in which God purposes to dwell).
NO, because God did not become the tabernacle.

God did not become the tabernacle, nor did he become the arc of the testimony or the pillar of cloud. If God became a man, or added to himself the form of a man, then God is NOT invisible. If God became a man, God has flesh and bones.

God is a spirit.

The words going forth, and proceeding from, the Spirit, conceived a child in the woman. That which was born of the women is God's word made flesh, the Son of God.
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  #5  
Old 03-19-2009, 05:41 PM
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ForeverBlessed ForeverBlessed is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbpew View Post
Nina,
thank you for the kind words.

I will attempt to speak using words that I hope are consistent enough with classical oneness speak to avoid being perceived as being purposefully "obtuse".

The exact question that will illuminate the aspects of my departure from most outspoken keepers of oneness, is "Is the Son God?" I do not believe that the Son of God is God.

I am one who understands (and teaches) that the witness of scripture reveals that God was IN Christ, NOT that God BECAME the Christ.

Christ is a word that applies to CREATION not creator.
Christ is a word that speaks of the object or recipient of the anointing NOT the anoint-er.
The deity of Christ is the anointing that establishes the vessel as the Christ.

FATHERS do not become their own Sons. To use words in this manner would require that we trash the entire common witness of our familiar language usage. God did not inspire word choices that contradict such a plain understanding of usage.

I believe that scripture plainly instructs that God begat (fathered, supplied the seed) that resulted in a life in the womb of Mary. God's own word became flesh when it found agreement with the ovum of Joseph's betrothed, the lineage of David.
Luke 1:35 provides this witness:
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Why is it so difficult for many oneness folks to believe that God SENT his only begotten Son into the world?
Answer: Because they teach and believe that God BECAME a man, rather than God has a Son in whom he [God] purposed to indwell; to make his own habitation without the hands of men involved. A last Adam, a true kinsman redeemer, must be a man of like persuasion as was the first Adam. The first Adam was not 'God becoming a man', the last Adam was not 'God becoming a man'. God is not a man, nor has God added to himself the form of a man.

God's word and the Sons of God are MANIFESTATIONS of God in the midst of creation. God indwelling his children renders God apparent (able to be preceived)within the created realm. The deity of Christ is the anointing.

If you see the vessel that God is indwelling, you have seen God.

When you see the son, in whom the father is indwelling, you have seen the father.

So, you ask me to answer the question, is Jesus God?

If his Son is where God makes his abode, then looking at Jesus, you were looking at the only visible part of an invisible God. You would be looking at the express image of an invisible God. When you have seen Jesus you have seen the father. So is Jesus God, YES!, NO!.....it depends on how you speak concerning the scene you are witnessing.
Yes, Jesus is God because the Father is with the Son (the Son is the tabernacle in which God purposes to dwell).
NO, because God did not become the tabernacle.

God did not become the tabernacle, nor did he become the arc of the testimony or the pillar of cloud. If God became a man, or added to himself the form of a man, then God is NOT invisible. If God became a man, God has flesh and bones.

God is a spirit.

The words going forth, and proceeding from, the Spirit, conceived a child in the woman. That which was born of the women is God's word made flesh, the Son of God.

I've gotta run... won't be back online until tomorrow or Sat... but from what I have read... I totally agree with you.

That is true oneness..
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  #6  
Old 03-19-2009, 05:59 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbpew View Post
Why is it so difficult for many oneness folks to believe that God SENT his only begotten Son into the world?
Answer: Because they teach and believe that God BECAME a man, rather than God has a Son in whom he [God] purposed to indwell; to make his own habitation without the hands of men involved. A last Adam, a true kinsman redeemer, must be a man of like persuasion as was the first Adam. The first Adam was not 'God becoming a man', the last Adam was not 'God becoming a man'. God is not a man, nor has God added to himself the form of a man.
Classic strawman argument. Oneness does not deny God sent His son INTO the world. Thus your "answer" is a fallacy as well.

All that is necessary is that He was a man. The first Adam, btw, did not have a human mother. So if your logic is correct Jesus could not be the second Adam either. And scriptures refute your last statement. See Phil 2. Col 2.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
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