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04-03-2009, 07:25 AM
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Beautiful are the feet......
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Right...behind...you!
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Re: Tulsa: A Description from a Coordinator of the
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJJ
Bro Epley,
I believe your comments and support them wholeheartedly. It is all about politics.
As far as the question about TV being their rallying cry, they have to use something. But we cannot allow them to cloud the issue and cover their political hypocrisy with a cloak of legitimacy. It would be better if they just said, "We're not happy with the way it's being run and desire something different". Instead they must demonize the very thing that many of them came out of.
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In a sense, aren't they demonizing their "old paths"? 
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Words: For when an emoticon just isn't enough.
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04-03-2009, 07:29 AM
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Re: Tulsa: A Description from a Coordinator of the
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway
In a sense, aren't they demonizing their "old paths"? |
Makes you wonder why. I don't believe that many of those men in the WPF really hate the UPCI, but they are looking for a following. They have to make a HOLINESS difference between the UPCI and the WPF.
We read of the same thing happening between the UPC and the AMF years ago. There was still a lot of animosity between the two org for years. In some circles there still is.
There is a saying: Alls fair in love and war. I might add, In politics also.
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04-03-2009, 07:34 AM
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Re: Tulsa: A Description from a Coordinator of the
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJJ
Makes you wonder why. I don't believe that many of those men in the WPF really hate the UPCI, but they are looking for a following. They have to make a HOLINESS difference between the UPCI and the WPF.
We read of the same thing happening between the UPC and the AMF years ago. There was still a lot of animosity between the two org for years. In some circles there still is.
There is a saying: Alls fair in love and war. I might add, In politics also.
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It's not just one org against another...how about one church against another in the same org?!
It's happened as long as I can remember, and continues today. Yikes...the stff that goes on in the name of "We're more holy than y'all!!"
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04-03-2009, 07:42 AM
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Re: Tulsa: A Description from a Coordinator of the
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb
It's not just one org against another...how about one church against another in the same org?!
It's happened as long as I can remember, and continues today. Yikes...the stff that goes on in the name of "We're more holy than y'all!!"
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Organized "Sheep stealing"!
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04-03-2009, 08:05 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Re: Tulsa: A Description from a Coordinator of the
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJJ
Bro Epley,
I believe your comments and support them wholeheartedly. It is all about politics.
As far as the question about TV being their rallying cry, they have to use something. But we cannot allow them to cloud the issue and cover their political hypocrisy with a cloak of legitimacy. It would be better if they just said, "We're not happy with the way it's being run and desire something different". Instead they must demonize the very thing that many of them came out of.
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In fairness the UPC seems to be straying swiftly from it's moorings I can't blame them. Television advertising was just the last straw. I know several men who joined and that was their feelings and now with the facial hair business it will help the WPF the uPC leadership seems to be shooting itself in the foot?
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04-03-2009, 08:11 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Re: Tulsa: A Description from a Coordinator of the
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJJ
Makes you wonder why. I don't believe that many of those men in the WPF really hate the UPCI, but they are looking for a following. They have to make a HOLINESS difference between the UPCI and the WPF.
We read of the same thing happening between the UPC and the AMF years ago. There was still a lot of animosity between the two org for years. In some circles there still is.
There is a saying: Alls fair in love and war. I might add, In politics also.
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In all fainess NOTHING is the same as the AMF formation. There was a bonifide rallying cry over NT church government. In some states the DS way overstepped their designated boundaries and the war started.For about 5 years before the split and the UPC by it's heavyhandedness provoked the thing. By that time it was over about 250 men many of them promnent pastors and churches left. Only a very few ever returned. The majority who left are independent today with the exception of those yet in the AMF.
However ths cause was just and Bibilcal that to me is what the WPF is lacking a strong rallying cause.
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04-03-2009, 08:28 AM
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Cross-examine it!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
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Re: Tulsa: A Description from a Coordinator of the
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
In fairness the UPC seems to be straying swiftly from it's moorings I can't blame them. Television advertising was just the last straw. I know several men who joined and that was their feelings and now with the facial hair business it will help the WPF the uPC leadership seems to be shooting itself in the foot?
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Which moorings? The Bible or traditions? facial hair? really? How can a minister of the Gospel Of Jesus Christ really insert his views ahead of Scripture?
Reminds me of a verse, "...ye shut up the kingdom of heaven..."
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"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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04-03-2009, 08:35 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,617
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Re: Tulsa: A Description from a Coordinator of the
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJJ
Organized "Sheep stealing"!
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It's some of that, but mostly the arrogance that one church is better than another...again, it's the notion "We're holier than y'all," implied in action, and evidenced in words.
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04-03-2009, 08:42 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,848
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Re: Tulsa: A Description from a Coordinator of the
Anybody in the UPC that believed the WWPF was not in fact going to be another full fledged org. like the UPC are the Neville Chamberlain's of the 21st century!
While on one side of their mouth they were announcing departments left and right that pretty much mirrored the UPC out of the other side of their mouth were denials that they were setting up an org.
I didn't understand why they didn't just come clean and reveal their agenda upfront. I guess it was to try and pull in those on the fence who had strong ties to the UPC.
As I said at the time and I will say now I do not begrudge these men for following their beliefs and forming an org. that embraces those beliefs. I just think they were not totally honest about what they were doing.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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04-03-2009, 08:43 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,848
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Re: Tulsa: A Description from a Coordinator of the
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
In all fainess NOTHING is the same as the AMF formation. There was a bonifide rallying cry over NT church government. In some states the DS way overstepped their designated boundaries and the war started.For about 5 years before the split and the UPC by it's heavyhandedness provoked the thing. By that time it was over about 250 men many of them promnent pastors and churches left. Only a very few ever returned. The majority who left are independent today with the exception of those yet in the AMF.However ths cause was just and Bibilcal that to me is what the WPF is lacking a strong rallying cause.
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You forgot to account for those who either themselves or their son's have "gone charismatic"!!!!! 
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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