What is it about Apostolics?

[TJJJ]

What is it about Apostolics that we, as a movement, are so short visioned?

Let me give you an example.

Consider our finances. It has only been in the last few years that we have had common sense books begin to be written, from oneness authors, about financial things. Books on retirement, investments, and etc. Where are our financial authors from the Apostolic views?

Or how about even banks and credit unions. The Mennonites have banks, the Baptists have banks, the Lutherans, Catholics, Mormons, Fundamentalist Mormons and others have banks and CU's, but there are no Pentecostal or Apostolic banks or credit unions that I know of.

To me, this is extremely short sightedness from our views. The Bible said that being the head would mean that we would need to lend, as opposed to the tail and not borrow. Where are our financial institutions?

It seems that the excuse everyone uses is that Jesus is coming back in 30 seconds, so there is no reason to look long range. But what happens if it is another 100 years? What things are we planning for on a long range basis?

Just curious is all!

[pelathais]

You're correct, TJJJ. Of course there are those who have wisdom and have a retirement plan that doesn't include the State lottery. But the movement as a whole has always been focused around one thing - establishing "a man of God" in a locality and treating him like he "deserves" to be treated.

This has lead to many fiefdoms, but no Kingdom. Of course, those who see nothing wrong in the present course of action will triumphantly thrust their finger in the air and say, "There's our kingdom!"

You see, we're building cloud cities, like in Star Trek. Just close your eyes tightly and say, "It's going to be worth it all!" three times and click your heels. Then stock up on Alpo and Raman for your retirement, unless you you've got a lucky feeling about the State lottery.

[rava61]

I think you 'hit the nail on the head' - Apostolics are very short sighted indeed: I think this comes from a lack of education and sound teaching. We have concerned ourselves for the most part with controlling people (and trying to control God), when we should have been paying more attention to what Jesus actually taught.

I remember when I was in High School my Pastor, who was a UPC man, told me that I could not go to college because I would not stay saved: I guess God was too small to be able to keep me.........hmmmmmm, something not right about that.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by rava61

I think you 'hit the nail on the head' - Apostolics are very short sighted indeed: I think this comes from a lack of education and sound teaching. We have concerned ourselves for the most part with controlling people (and trying to control God), when we should have been paying more attention to what Jesus actually taught.

I remember when I was in High School my Pastor, who was a UPC man, told me that I could not go to college because I would not stay saved: I guess God was too small to be able to keep me.........hmmmmmm, something not right about that.

I got the same instructions. Then, when I applied to Bible College, the first choice was a "compromiser" and the second ended up turining off the heat in the middle of winter and voting close itself down a couple of times during the one year I was there.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by pelathais

You're correct, TJJJ. Of course there are those who have wisdom and have a retirement plan that doesn't include the State lottery. But the movement as a whole has always been focused around one thing - establishing "a man of God" in a locality and treating him like he "deserves" to be treated.

This has lead to many fiefdoms, but no Kingdom. Of course, those who see nothing wrong in the present course of action will triumphantly thrust their finger in the air and say, "There's our kingdom!"

You see, we're building cloud cities, like in Star Trek. Just close your eyes tightly and say, "It's going to be worth it all!" three times and click your heels. Then stock up on Alpo and Raman for your retirement, unless you you've got a lucky feeling about the State lottery.

Pel,

Sad but true. I have been looking at this for several years now. There is absolutely no long range planning going on for many Apostolics.

When is the last time that you heard a sermon on financial planning in the Church? I preached about it one time in a church that had been in existance for 80 years. One of the older men came up to me afterwards and told me he had never heard preaching on financial planning, outside of tithes and offerings, in that church. It is like people are afraid to say IRA. The stock market is of the devil and and planning is a lack of faith.

Oh well, I guess if some just want to be wal-mart greeters then so be it.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by rava61

I think you 'hit the nail on the head' - Apostolics are very short sighted indeed: I think this comes from a lack of education and sound teaching. We have concerned ourselves for the most part with controlling people (and trying to control God), when we should have been paying more attention to what Jesus actually taught.

I remember when I was in High School my Pastor, who was a UPC man, told me that I could not go to college because I would not stay saved: I guess God was too small to be able to keep me.........hmmmmmm, something not right about that.

What does it take to start something like a Credit union for Apostolics?

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Pel,

Sad but true. I have been looking at this for several years now. There is absolutely no long range planning going on for many Apostolics.

When is the last time that you heard a sermon on financial planning in the Church? I preached about it one time in a church that had been in existance for 80 years. One of the older men came up to me afterwards and told me he had never heard preaching on financial planning, outside of tithes and offerings, in that church. It is like people are afraid to say IRA. The stock market is of the devil and and planning is a lack of faith.

Oh well, I guess if some just want to be wal-mart greeters then so be it.

Unfortunately, the edict to "pay your tithes and offerings and God will take care of the rest!" is THE financial advice given in many (most?) churches.

I get the sense that things have been changing for a few years but the feeling in the 80's is that the rapture was imminent and thus actually putting money AWAY for the future was a foolish thing to do.... Not when it could be MUCH better spent on the building fund/new parking lot/general tithes.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

What does it take to start something like a Credit union for Apostolics?

What does it take to be a WalMart greeter?

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by pelathais

What does it take to be a WalMart greeter?

So you are saying action instead of inaction? Planning instead of a lack thereof?

Somewhere we are going to have to change our mindset if we are to survive as a movement, maybe that is the problem. Maybe that is why we have so many splinter groups!