First of all, you can't compare food addictions to other addictions effectively, because food is necessary to our survival, and other substances aren't.
Beyond that, I realize food can be addictive, because of its comfort factor, and there are foods that are actually addictive, which points to bad eating habits in general.
Overall being FAT is a cultural thing--not a UPCI thing. Anyone who makes that leap is really stretching. LOL!!!! Just go to the mall or to your local grocery store. You'll find mostly fat people walking around--because most of America is fat.
Ferd has some of the best arguments on this thread, and Keith, you seem to be stuck on the idea that all fat people get that way because they have a "heart issue." Not really the case all the way around.
1. The normal American diet is full of processed, refined, sugary, fatty foods.
2. The normal American lifestyle is enhanced with all sorts of conveniences, such as cell phones that can be answered while still sitting on the couch, rather than walking to the phone, elevators instead of staircases, cars instead of bicycles or walking, bellboys to carry luggage, etc. If we want to be more active, we actually have to turn our backs on modern conveniences--or eat like a rabbit to compensate for the lack of movement.
3. Because we're a culture enmeshed in convenience, we have moved away from preparing fresh foods from scratch with healthier ingredients, and toward the quick and easy fast foods with the caloric equivalent of a full day in a single meal, and sometimes more if you super size.
4. Some people are obese because they have medical problems that cause them to gain weight, the weight gain further complicates their medical problems, resulting in less movement, and more weight gain, and soon the situation is out of control. Without medical intervention, some of these cases are hopeless.
5. Some people are obese because of their bad eating habits, lack of exercise, or a combination.
6. Some people are obese because they don't have enough money to buy healthier foods, OR lack the knowledge to make better choices. They may eat the same serving size as a person eating a carrot, but obviously an oz. of Twinkie is not equal to a an oz. of carrot.
7. Some people are obese because they are addicted to the feeling they get from food, and use it to numb their pain, much like a drug or alcohol addict does. I seriously doubt this is why the majority of fat UPCers are fat, as Keith suggested, and I really doubt this is why the majority of Americans are fat--although I'm sure it applies to some people. Personally, I tend to eat very little when I'm stressed, but when I'm happy--bring on the treats! LOL!!!! If I had a stressful life, I'd probably be rail thin--which I'm not.
8. Some people have bad genes. Factoid. I have two parents, on one side, they're all skinny, and on my Dad's side, they're all fat. Really fat. Diabetics, heart problems, etc. By the way, my Dad and my Grandparents are the only ones on his side who were OP's. The rest were heathens--and still huge.
Wether you label it addiction or not doesn't matter, by in large, we have an epdemic that is problematic in the least, and will cause many a early death in the worst.
Again, when someone knows that something isn't good, knows that it will hurts them and yet they continue to do something, this is the a classic definition of addiction or at least bondage.
Lets walk through this,
We have and culture in general, (but remember we are not powerless, culture without God is) a large # of our people who are overweight.
They know it, know that there are consequences for it and yet continue to do it. Why? For us, my informed opinion is that many of food is one or in many cases the only pleasurable things we do. It feels good, tastes good, etc. It actually changes brain chemistry as designed to do.
My working theory is that for many of us, we resort to the overuse of food when stressed in pain, depressed, mad, sad, or even glad. Thus a heart issue not morally of course but moods and emotions create desires for relief. Food is readily available to provide the fix.
By the way corret your post, I never mentioned the UPC, I mentioned Op's a group I am most familiar with.
__________________
Please pray for India
My personal mission is to BRING people into a right relationship with God, GROW them up to maturity and SEND them back into the world to minister.
The point is that "we" don't need to talk about it. Do we think that overweight people have not noticed that they're overweight? That they don't know that it's unhealthy? Most everyone has a doctor who informs them of the health risks, I'm sure.
Why do we think "we" can, or need to, do something about the fat factor?
Our pastor mentions that we should be good stewards of our bodies. That we need to take care of our temples. Beyond that, it's up to each individual to take care of themselves. Or not.
I'd be willing to bet that there's not a single, solitary person sitting on any Pentecostal pew who doesn't know that being overweight is unhealthy.
Anyone here who has lost weight, did you do it because someone "talked to you" about it? Or did the desire and determination to lose weight come from within yourself?
The best thing we can do when we see someone who is overweight and unhealthy is to pray for them. Pray for God to give them the strength and determination to do what it takes to lose weight. There's nothing else we can do really... about others. We can take care of our own bodies, though.
Um yeah my mother on her death bed asked me to lose weight to be healthier cause she had bad health. But beyond that I chose what to do and how to lose weight. Truth is that I wanted to lose weight anyway, but her asking me to gave the push. But now my obsession is to be healthy for a longer life with my daughter. I am well on my way and sure I am making Mom proud too.
__________________
"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
First of all, you can't compare food addictions to other addictions effectively, because food is necessary to our survival, and other substances aren't.
Beyond that, I realize food can be addictive, because of its comfort factor, and there are foods that are actually addictive, which points to bad eating habits in general.
Overall being FAT is a cultural thing--not a UPCI thing. Anyone who makes that leap is really stretching. LOL!!!! Just go to the mall or to your local grocery store. You'll find mostly fat people walking around--because most of America is fat.
Ferd has some of the best arguments on this thread, and Keith, you seem to be stuck on the idea that all fat people get that way because they have a "heart issue." Not really the case all the way around.
1. The normal American diet is full of processed, refined, sugary, fatty foods.
2. The normal American lifestyle is enhanced with all sorts of conveniences, such as cell phones that can be answered while still sitting on the couch, rather than walking to the phone, elevators instead of staircases, cars instead of bicycles or walking, bellboys to carry luggage, etc. If we want to be more active, we actually have to turn our backs on modern conveniences--or eat like a rabbit to compensate for the lack of movement.
3. Because we're a culture enmeshed in convenience, we have moved away from preparing fresh foods from scratch with healthier ingredients, and toward the quick and easy fast foods with the caloric equivalent of a full day in a single meal, and sometimes more if you super size.
4. Some people are obese because they have medical problems that cause them to gain weight, the weight gain further complicates their medical problems, resulting in less movement, and more weight gain, and soon the situation is out of control. Without medical intervention, some of these cases are hopeless.
5. Some people are obese because of their bad eating habits, lack of exercise, or a combination.
6. Some people are obese because they don't have enough money to buy healthier foods, OR lack the knowledge to make better choices. They may eat the same serving size as a person eating a carrot, but obviously an oz. of Twinkie is not equal to a an oz. of carrot.
7. Some people are obese because they are addicted to the feeling they get from food, and use it to numb their pain, much like a drug or alcohol addict does. I seriously doubt this is why the majority of fat UPCers are fat, as Keith suggested, and I really doubt this is why the majority of Americans are fat--although I'm sure it applies to some people. Personally, I tend to eat very little when I'm stressed, but when I'm happy--bring on the treats! LOL!!!! If I had a stressful life, I'd probably be rail thin--which I'm not.
8. Some people have bad genes. Factoid. I have two parents, on one side, they're all skinny, and on my Dad's side, they're all fat. Really fat. Diabetics, heart problems, etc. By the way, my Dad and my Grandparents are the only ones on his side who were OP's. The rest were heathens--and still huge.
Answer to the first paragraph...you do need food to survive, but not tons of food to survive. It doesn't take over-eating to be over-healthy. Like you said it can be addictive. Keep in mind that people need or take drugs to meet needs for health issues, headaches, etc. but also that is addictive. If my Mom were alive she would tell you so.
Reaction to paragraph 3....Look I can't speak for Keith, but for me I am trying to say that there are a GREAT number of overweight people in the movement not that all of them are nor that all the fat people in the world are part of the UPCI or some other OP org. That is not what I am saying at all and I don't think Keith is either. No one here is saying that all the UPCI is fat nor that the majority of the fat people are in the UPCI.....I repeated that just to make sure that it is clear.
Most of the rest of what you wrote is true or seems so. This being the exception-if the people in the UPC or other OP orgs that are overweight couldn't it be because a LACK of exercise? I think that if someone got up and spoke about this at GC or Camps or something it would be tought to find someone to even talk about it cause it seems that MANY of the 'famous' preachers are too overweight to speak about it cause it makes them seem like a hypocrite. IMO
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"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
I was raised UPC and left a long time ago, so my comments may be out of date, although I do still have family members in the organization. This is JMO.
Growing up, we didn't attend sporting events, movies, dances, etc. We would get together after church at the local pizza place and we ate pizza. You can maybe get away with that when you are 16, but not so much when you are 30. But, everyone went there and everyone ordered pizza. We would get together at each other's home and play games and there was always food involved. We had church dinners and lots of food. In our family, something was always baking. I must say that some of the best food I've ever eaten has been at a gathering of UPC members. Some of those women can cook amazing food. Most of the ones I know still use butter, cream, cream cheese, eagle brand milk, cream of anything soup, etc. It tastes wonderful, but hard on th waistline. For many people I still know, food remains a focal point of acceptable entertainment and a focus of many gatherings.
I remember that exercise really wasn't encouraged and I've heard many older women tell a younger wife that she wouldn't have time to exercise when she had kids. In our area, it was questioned if you and your husband did NOT put on weight the first year of marriage (not taking care of your husband - know this from personal experience!) Most activities that I recall were not centered around being active - more around crafts, talking and cooking. Maybe that has changed since I left, but it seems to be consistent with my family members.
I think that a lot of pentecostals really appreciate good food. And they eat too much of it because they enjoy it. For many, the weight creeps up on them and before they know it, they are not just 10 or 15 pounds overweight - rather, they are 30 or 40 pounds overweight. And, it is hard to take it off when you aren't accustomed to having exercise as an important part of your day, you aren' really physically active and you are around so much GOOD food.
Some church would do well to take their church cookbook and recreate the wonderful recipes in it in a healthy, tasty way.
And I'll agree on two points -
1. Some conservative cultures encourage the problem to continue by intentionally or unintentionally discouraging exercise and active lifestyles. However, "conservatism" isn't unique to OP's.
2. I do know of one man who used to tell his wife that she shouldn't lose weight, because he liked her the way she was, and if she lost weight he would know it was for another man. (And he wasn't kidding) I knew of one other man who expressed the same sentiment. I'd say that's a control issue, not a "church" issue.
I DO think this is a good topic. I just don't like the stereotypical thinking that often goes along with it.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
1. This isn't a UPC or UC issue. To make it one is simply ridiculous and stupid. It isn't because UPC and UC'ers are meanies who are against everything related to being fit and exercising. (this coming from a moderate/slight lib)
2. Serving sizes have substantially increased since the 1950s.
ie - this small then/now example is from Meals Matter.com
Serving Sizes Then and Now
Food or beverage 1950s Expanded 2003 portion
French fries 2.4 ounces up to 7.1 ounces
Fountain soda 7.0 ounces 12 to 64 ounces
Hamburger patty 1.6 ounces up to 8.0 ounces
Hamburger sandwich 3.9 ounces 4.4 to 12.6 ounces
Muffin 3.0 ounces 6.5 ounces
Pasta serving 1.5 cups 3.0 cups
Chocolate bar 1 ounce 2.6 to 8 ounces
Fast food and restaurants are all pushing for more, more, more.
3. More than a certain church problem, it's an eating habit problem. This is not limited to church or to certain organizations ... it's a lifestyle and habit. We go to church sunday and wednesday nights (or whatever schedule you have) and afterwards we're hungry from the energy used in service, so we do the logical thing our brains are telling us to do ... eat.
Again, serving sizes have increased, but also now you have to factor in the time of day. It's normally between 9 and 10 at night after an evening service by the time everyone gets to the restaurant and begins eating.
What happens next? You go home and go to bed ... allowing the food to just sit and create fat.
So again, it's not a UPC or UC thing ... nothing to do with standards (just go to WalMart and you'll see plenty of obese people in spandex shorts or sweats wandering around looking for the extra large bag of chips and 24 pack of soda.) ... it's an eating habit and serving size thing.
Answer to the first paragraph...you do need food to survive, but not tons of food to survive. It doesn't take over-eating to be over-healthy. Like you said it can be addictive. Keep in mind that people need or take drugs to meet needs for health issues, headaches, etc. but also that is addictive. If my Mom were alive she would tell you so.
I agree. However, my point is that we can't just teach/preach against food, can we? LOL!!!! People have to eat. So it becomes a more complex problem than other addictive substances. It's easy to say, "Just say NO to drugs", or "Don't DRINK!!!!" But you can't say, "Don't eat." You have to teach people how to eat, and how to live, and in most cases eating right and living well are in stark contrast to the normal American way of life.
Quote:
Reaction to paragraph 3....Look I can't speak for Keith, but for me I am trying to say that there are a GREAT number of overweight people in the movement not that all of them are nor that all the fat people in the world are part of the UPCI or some other OP org. That is not what I am saying at all and I don't think Keith is either. No one here is saying that all the UPCI is fat nor that the majority of the fat people are in the UPCI.....I repeated that just to make sure that it is clear.
I looked at the WPF pics that Keith referenced (and some from another page on the site as well), and my thoughts were that it looks like a normal cross section of our culture, especially if you consider income, and there is a higher rate of obesity among lower income Americans.
Quote:
Most of the rest of what you wrote is true or seems so. This being the exception-if the people in the UPC or other OP orgs that are overweight couldn't it be because a LACK of exercise? I think that if someone got up and spoke about this at GC or Camps or something it would be tought to find someone to even talk about it cause it seems that MANY of the 'famous' preachers are too overweight to speak about it cause it makes them seem like a hypocrite. IMO
I wholeheartedly agree that a LACK of exercise is a BIG problem. (pun intended ) Jeff and I try to keep our kids active, the girls are in basketball, Jeffrey is in baseball now, they're not allowed to play their video games or be on the computer for more than an hour a day, and TV is a privilege--not something they're allowed to just vegetate in front of for hours on end. We must be doing something right, because when given the choice, our kids would rather be outside riding their bikes or playing than inside watching TV or being lazy. And they're all three slim.
However, it isn't the church's fault in most cases. I think families don't take the time to be creative, OR they don't see health as being a priority--and that needs to be taught from the pulpit.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
) Jeff and I try to keep our kids active, the girls are in basketball, Jeffrey is in baseball now, they're not allowed to play their video games or be on the computer for more than an hour a day, and TV is a privilege--not something they're allowed to just vegetate in front of for hours on end. We must be doing something right, because when given the choice, our kids would rather be outside riding their bikes or playing than inside watching TV or being lazy. And they're all three slim. 
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