Con-to-Lib "Hybrid" Churches: Let's be Honest

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I can. And I can name even more "standards" churches that have failed on their own and all but disappeared without ever "letting down."

Just go through the list of Home Missionaries into your district from the last 20 or 30 years. What has become of all those works? Why? Which were "standards" based churches, and which placed an emphasis more upon relationship with the Savior? Who's still around?

Almost all were "standards" churches around here. Most of them are gone.

Who are they? What's their story?

Let's be fair and say there are poor pastors on both sides of the aisle. I've seen fly-by-night charlatan libs go nowhere, and I've seen Hitler Juniors never go anywhere. Likewise, I've seen many conservative churches succeed (at numbers), and ultra-lib churches succeed (at numbers). Fair enough? I'm not trying to combat con vs lib -- at least it wasn't my intention. I'm referring to this specific problem of hybrid churches.

Seems the few churches I can think of that fit this description (Michigan, Texas, California, Florida) are having some extreme challenges, especially with the youth groups.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

Seems the few churches I can think of that fit this description (Michigan, Texas, California, Florida) are having some extreme challenges, especially with the youth groups.

What kind of challenges?

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

What kind of challenges?

I can only imagine the challenges with young people or youth group. I think it really is important for these changes to be made slowly. Teaching and encouragment for a personal relationship with the Lord is so important.

I have had to do a lot of teaching on "all things are lawful, but not everything is expedient" to my teen girls. The hardest for me has been with my oldest who was the last to let go of traditions. She was still active in singing of our church, so although her sisters didn't, she still held to the standards. It hasn't been an easy time... I can only imagine what an entire group of teens would be facing when standards have been linked to their salvation for most of their lives.

The most spiritually grounded of my girls is the youngest, and she hasn't followed standards since she was in grade school. In school, she takes a bible to read and she is also the one who will defend her position with scripture. She is right now at UPCI youth camp, where she wants to be.. because she has a sincere desire to be closer to the Lord and grow spiritually.

I know it might sound funny, but you remove outward standards or guidelines and you find out real fast how strong someone's relationship with God is.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

What kind of challenges?

Being able to back up the "standards" with scripture?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

Who are they? What's their story?

Let's be fair and say there are poor pastors on both sides of the aisle. I've seen fly-by-night charlatan libs go nowhere, and I've seen Hitler Juniors never go anywhere. Likewise, I've seen many conservative churches succeed (at numbers), and ultra-lib churches succeed (at numbers). Fair enough? I'm not trying to combat con vs lib -- at least it wasn't my intention. I'm referring to this specific problem of hybrid churches.

Seems the few churches I can think of that fit this description (Michigan, Texas, California, Florida) are having some extreme challenges, especially with the youth groups.

You're right about the "hybrid" angle. At least in my opinion you're right.

I don't want to name names or places where the word "failure" is used. After all, I confess that the standards of success are based more on "man's measurements" than on anything eternal.

The place where I poured out most of the years of my life and ministry doesn't really exist any more. We were one of the outwardly "ultra-con" type places, but the senior pastor was really more of a "live and let live" type - at least when he could get away with it. Then an axe would fall over some trivial point, heads would roll and we'd be "holiness or hell!" again, until some new family showed up and won our hearts and things would kind of slide again.

The overall atmosphere ended up being kind of deceptive, but it literally took me years and years to notice that. We'd lure folks in with an "everyone's welcome!" attitude. Then the old man and his wife would go off to a "retreat" some place or get "counsel" from "friends" and heads would roll again.

Another thing, look up all of the churches that made the news as "cults" within the UPC and apostolic world. Google it. You'll find that all of them were "ultra-con" type places and that what got them into trouble was their emphasis on some aspect of "holiness." In the end, they ended up being too extreme for the UPC, but all of the old news accounts still call them "UPC" churches.

I think the biggest problem is one of deception. We deceive ourselves about our intentions and wind up deceiving others. The yo-yo effect of "extreme" to "open" to "extreme" and back again is what causes the most problems. How about just letting the Word of God determine our "standards?" If it's not in the Book, then be open to some different ideas. Being foundeed upon the teachings of Jesus Christ and His apostles is what "Apostolics" are supposed to be about. Wouldn't it be great if it were true?