Pastoral Authority Part 898,230

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

It seems to me that we have taken a tradition from the romam catholic church of preist and turned it into a pastor authority. Like everything else we have not looked close enough at the things we teach puting things into their proper context in the scripture, and the history of that day. Paul did say study to show .... rightly dividing the word. It also seems funny to me that we shout the advice of Paul one of the greatest Aposotles as doctrine, When Paul explicitly tells us to follow him as he follows Christ. We quote scriptures like Hebrews 13:17 when in all likely hood Paul was not speaking of pastors. (or who ever wrote Hebrews) How does one follow a dictator (which is what most fundemental churches have)?
Finaly a careful study of a shephard would open the eyes of many (which is what the pastor is likend to by Christ. I have found over the last 20 years that instead of trying to prove my point I have gone back to God in prayer and studied asking God to show me what is truth. We are admonished to study Gods word not just to read it.
Be blessed

Who were the "those who have the rule over you" that give account for your soul to God?

Do enlighten us on the role of a shepherd.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

Who were the "those who have the rule over you" that give account for your soul to God?

Do enlighten us on the role of a shepherd.

First off you need to understand that the word obey means by persuasion and the word rule acctualy means more as a leader than a ruler. Get into the Greek a little bit more. Again Jesus likens the church leades to shepards a careful study on the role of a shepard will open blind eyes.

Jesus was our great example how did he lead. He did not drive he did not expect total submision in the way many Apostolic demand. We are to give ourself to God because we love him not because our pastor said this is the way we must live. Paul said follow me as I follow Christ, not do as I say because this is waht the scripture says. I am sorry but many of us have become like the Pharisee. We think we can make Gods word better by defining what we think is what God ment.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

First off you need to understand that the word obey means by persuasion and the word rule acctualy means more as a leader than a ruler. Get into the Greek a little bit more. Again Jesus likens the church leades to shepards a careful study on the role of a shepard will open blind eyes.

Jesus was our great example how did he lead. He did not drive he did not expect total submision in the way many Apostolic demand. We are to give ourself to God because we love him not because our pastor said this is the way we must live. Paul said follow me as I follow Christ, not do as I say because this is waht the scripture says. I am sorry but many of us have become like the Pharisee. We think we can make Gods word better by defining what we think is what God ment.

Then 80% of the scholars that translated it have used the wrong English word (including the popular translations -- NIV, KJV, NKJV, ESV, NLT). Either that or someone is trying to find anything they can to support their opinion. When you write your Bible, let me know.

Jesus did not expect full obedience to the Gospel?
You need to visit the Pharisee thread. Not getting your point.
Follow me... condition: as I follow Christ.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

Then 80% of the scholars that translated it have used the wrong English word (including the popular translations -- NIV, KJV, NKJV, ESV, NLT). Either that or someone is trying to find anything they can to support their opinion. When you write your Bible, let me know.

Jesus did not expect full obedience to the Gospel?
You need to visit the Pharisee thread. Not getting your point.
Follow me... condition: as I follow Christ.

Check out vines expository bible dictionary!! Don't feel bad I was shocked as much as you might be. But I began to look at things from a differant view point. That is why I see thing the way I do. Some times when our traditions are tried it is hard but Check it out before you judge me. Look to the ministry of Christ if any one should be an example of the ministry and how it should be done don't you think the ministry of Christ should be taken into count. He did not lord it over in fact he called 12 and gave them all equal authority.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Check out vines expository bible dictionary!! Don't feel bad I was shocked as much as you might be. But I began to look at things from a differant view point. That is why I see thing the way I do. Some times when our traditions are tried it is hard but Check it out before you judge me. Look to the ministry of Christ if any one should be an example of the ministry and how it should be done don't you think the ministry of Christ should be taken into count. He did not lord it over in fact he called 12 and gave them all equal authority.

I'll check it out. I'm not shocked. I've heard it all. I just came back the point where I believe in submission, authority with the condition being that the leader is following Christ, and is serving the flock, not lording over them.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

I'll check it out. I'm not shocked. I've heard it all. I just came back the point where I believe in submission, authority with the condition being that the leader is following Christ, and is serving the flock, not lording over them.

Then don't let me sway your opinion All I can say is to study to show yourself approved and seak out your own salvation with fear and trembling. We all need a pastor even pastors but God must be the final authority, not man. I beleive the ministry is given to the church not the church to the ministry. Does that make since? I see the kingdom of God as hear today Christ on the throne with the gifts of the spirit and ministry given to the church to edify and equip the saints to further the knigdom of God. My king is Jesus and he is the final authority therefore I will study to make sure that what is comming accross the pulpit is the word and not mans traditions.

Be blessed I must get off for now.
laromans12/Godsdrummer

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

Jesus did not expect full obedience to the Gospel?
You need to visit the Pharisee thread. Not getting your point.
Follow me... condition: as I follow Christ.

In other words the ministry is not Lords over God kingdom they are leaders we are to follow if they are leading us in the right way. But we must seak out our own salvation not the salvation of the preacher. Today we take a verse and preach a whole doctrine with out understanding what God was intening at that time. We misconscrew meanings, take Deut 22:5 Many take that verse to say a women cannot wear a par of pants. Hence the Pharisee idea. They thought they could make the word better by defining what God ment. Instead they missed the point and Jesus condemend them many times. All I am saying is it is not the Pastors place to tell me what I can or cannot wear etc. It is his place to give the saints tools to help them become strong in the spirit that they can grow and mature to do their own ministry. The Pastor is not the voice of God. He is infalable just as you and I are.