How are Mr. Gates' actions keeping racism alive?
(hopefully, I'll be back online to read your response tonight.)
Thanks for correcting the name...Gates, not Bates.
I just listened to Ms Whalen's speech on Fox.
Prof. Gates spoke what was in his heart...hurt, anger, prejudece. As Ms Whalen said, she choose her words carfully. Prof. Gates, did not. In being caught off guard, by his reactions, he ignited racial hatred....yet again..sigh... (Maybe I'm choosing the wrong wording here myself, but I'm trying to choose carfully).
Even our own Pres. vommited his own feelings too. I do however see a silver lining in all this. We do need to talk about these feelings. But it is difficult.
If we are to ever get past these racial incidences, no matter what or who you are, we have to first be humble and open to hear what the other has to say.
I wonder how this "beer" theology thing is going to work...LOL
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Rom.8:38,39-For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither heigth nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to seperate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Affirmative Action based solely on color is something I am against, especailly when it comes to educational benefits.
The financial background and potential for scholastic ability should be the qualifiers. BTW there is more than one way to measure scholatic ability than solely on a student's G.P.A.
AA based on race is reverse racism, plain and simple. When the government or educational institutions require quotas or AA, in most cases they pass over the more qualified individual in favor of a person who's major qualification is dark skin. It's reverse racism and extremely unfair to those who work hard, study hard and are disqualified based on skin color.
I've heard people talk about paying african americans a settlement as reparations for the slave trade. While I believe racism and the slave trade to be abhorrent and sinful, I don't believe paying money to a race of people for something that happened hundreds of years ago is the answer. The biggest reason is there are likely millions in the US whose ancestors had nothing to do with the slave trade. My ancestors had nothing to do with the slave trade - so why should I have to pay for something we had no part in? Yes, it was terrible and I wish we could erase the sick stain from our history, but financial reparations are not the way to deal with it.
AA based on race is reverse racism, plain and simple. When the government or educational institutions require quotas or AA, in most cases they pass over the more qualified individual in favor of a person who's major qualification is dark skin. It's reverse racism and extremely unfair to those who work hard, study hard and are disqualified based on skin color.
I've heard people talk about paying african americans a settlement as reparations for the slave trade. While I believe racism and the slave trade to be abhorrent and sinful, I don't believe paying money to a race of people for something that happened hundreds of years ago is the answer. The biggest reason is there are likely millions in the US whose ancestors had nothing to do with the slave trade. My ancestors had nothing to do with the slave trade - so why should I have to pay for something we had no part in? Yes, it was terrible and I wish we could erase the sick stain from our history, but financial reparations are not the way to deal with it.
n david. I told myself I was going to stay out of this thread now. I've come to realize that with issues of race, it is easy to be misunderstood and misrepresented and that there are often deep emotions that few know about. I also know that most of what I would say is a waste of time because people tend to have their opinions set in stone already and there is usually very little room left for another perspective or for the notion that one person's reality may not be another's.
However, I will wade back in just a little. Trying to tie Affirmative Action into just slavery alone is a mistake. AA was designed to address very real and very institutionalized discrimination much, much, much more recently. What is sad to me that this was ever a necessity in our society. We can argue whether it is absolutely necessary today, but I don't think that anyone can argue that it wasn't necessary in the not-too-distant past.
Now I'm really going to test the waters:
I recognize that there are many white people who now feel like the system is unfair to them because there is a small portion of some instituation and opportunities that may not be available to them. This is a good starting point for dialogue. Multiply that reality and sentiment by 100 and extrapolate it over decades and generations. That may give some insight into what fuels a lot of emotion.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
n david. I told myself I was going to stay out of this thread now.
Every time you try to walk away, we pull you back in! bwaaahhahaha Actually I like reading your posts. They're very well-written and give good information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstew
I've come to realize that with issues of race, it is easy to be misunderstood and misrepresented and that there are often deep emotions that few know about. I also know that most of what I would say is a waste of time because people tend to have their opinions set in stone already and there is usually very little room left for another perspective or for the notion that one person's reality may not be another's.
This is true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstew
However, I will wade back in just a little. Trying to tie Affirmative Action into just slavery alone is a mistake. AA was designed to address very real and very institutionalized discrimination much, much, much more recently. What is sad to me that this was ever a necessity in our society. We can argue whether it is absolutely necessary today, but I don't think that anyone can argue that it wasn't necessary in the not-too-distant past.
I wasn't thinking of AA being tied with slavery. Moreso, I thought it tied to the civil rights struggle during the mid-1900s til now. I would agree that because of the mindset of that era, it was necessary to ensure opportunity for african americans in both the workplace and education.
Tstew, you could correct me at any time, from what I've heard and seen, while some could argue that educational opportunities are to a point where AA shouldn't be a factor, the workplace has yet to do the same. I would still say that AA based only on skin color is reverse racism, however I would agree that there are instances where a qualified black worker would need AA in order to get the same opportunity as a qualified white worker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstew
Now I'm really going to test the waters:
I recognize that there are many white people who now feel like the system is unfair to them because there is a small portion of some instituation and opportunities that may not be available to them. This is a good starting point for dialogue. Multiply that reality and sentiment by 100 and extrapolate it over decades and generations. That may give some insight into what fuels a lot of emotion.
I'd agree that the number of whites passed over in education or jobs because of AA is a small number. Does it still make it right to use AA based on color and not on qualifications?
Every time you try to walk away, we pull you back in! bwaaahhahaha Actually I like reading your posts. They're very well-written and give good information.
This is true.
I wasn't thinking of AA being tied with slavery. Moreso, I thought it tied to the civil rights struggle during the mid-1900s til now. I would agree that because of the mindset of that era, it was necessary to ensure opportunity for african americans in both the workplace and education.
Tstew, you could correct me at any time, from what I've heard and seen, while some could argue that educational opportunities are to a point where AA shouldn't be a factor, the workplace has yet to do the same. I would still say that AA based only on skin color is reverse racism, however I would agree that there are instances where a qualified black worker would need AA in order to get the same opportunity as a qualified white worker.
I would agree that the need for AA is quite a bit less than it was when it was initially instituted. Like I said, to me the tragedy is that it was even necessary in the first place. I will point out that it seems easy for some to accept that the archaic mindset that creates a very real glass ceiling for women still exists, but not want to accept that it may still exist for black Americans. In my opinion the depth that the black community had to climb from to acieve equality was infinitely worse than where women had to...yet I think it would be foolish to think that sexism does not affect women at all.
As far as education goes, I kind of like an initiative that was being floated around in Florida a few years ago when I lived there. I'm not sure where they are with it now or if it is in effect. In a nutshell, the state was guaranteeing that all students who scored in a certain percentile would have the opportunity to go to college regardless of race. The numbers bore out that this would provide greater access for minorities than AA did.
I can tell you from my personal experience however, that in many places even high school guidance counselors work with minority students differently. I am appalled at some of what I have seen and heard. One of the things we do at our church is get involved in the education of our children and push them to excel.
Quote:
I'd agree that the number of whites passed over in education or jobs because of AA is a small number. Does it still make it right to use AA based on color and not on qualifications?
You ask if it is right to use AA based on color and not on qualification. My answer is no. The design of AA is to be based on color and qualification. I do not think that color is a substitute for qualification, and I also think it is insulting whenever people assume and infer that the recipient is not qualified. The issue that AA was designed to address was that qualified people were being denied because of their color...not that because of people's color they were not qualified. I don't think that anyone should be forced to hire anyone who is not qualified...and I also don't think that one would have to in order to hire a minority.
My point about the number or percentage of opportunities that AA denies white people of was to point out that in your frustration may lie the key to understanding how some feel in situations that are infinitely more restricting and demeaning.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
I recognize that there are many white people who now feel like the system is unfair to them because there is a small portion of some instituation and opportunities that may not be available to them. This is a good starting point for dialogue. Multiply that reality and sentiment by 100 and extrapolate it over decades and generations. That may give some insight into what fuels a lot of emotion.
I recognize that there are many white people who now feel like the system is unfair to them because there is a small portion of some institution and opportunities that may not be available to them.
Wrong is wrong. Always.
Discrimination is wrong. Always.
Period.
Quote:
Multiply that reality and sentiment by 100 and extrapolate it over decades and generations. That may give some insight into what fuels a lot of emotion.
Why decades and generations? My life experiences are not defined by what happened to my parents or my grandparents or my great grandparents.
Why should we have to battle through generations of pent up anger while we have a black man in the White House.
At what point can we realize that we are moving on?
How long must we continue to pay for and make provision for the sins of a decade ago... a generation ago.. a century ago?
If there is discrimination in anyones life today then they should speak out and we should all do what it takes to bring that discrimination to an end.
But neither my feelings nor anyone elses should be based upon a decade ago, a generation ago or a century ago.
Wrong is wrong. Always.
Discrimination is wrong. Always.
Period.
Why decades and generations? My life experiences are not defined by what happened to my parents or my grandparents or my great grandparents.
D4T. I think you might want to rethink the position that what happens to your parents does not greatly affect your formative years. To a great extent, I am who I am because of my parents and I thank God for it.
Also, one consistent point I've made is that in dealing with particularly the older generation in the black community, you're not dealing with what happened to parents and grandparents, you're dealing with what happened to that individual.
Quote:
Why should we have to battle through generations of pent up anger while we have a black man in the White House.
At what point can we realize that we are moving on?
How long must we continue to pay for and make provision for the sins of a decade ago... a generation ago.. a century ago?
If there is discrimination in anyones life today then they should speak out and we should all do what it takes to bring that discrimination to an end.
But neither my feelings nor anyone elses should be based upon a decade ago, a generation ago or a century ago.
If your position is that what happens in one decade has no bearing on the next, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Are we moving on? Absolutely. I am very encouraged by the changes I see in every generation.
And people do speak out against discrimination. It does still occur, but thankfully it is getting better.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
he ignited racial hatred....yet again..sigh...
(Maybe I'm choosing the wrong wording here myself, but I'm trying to choose carfully).
Actually I like reading your posts. They're very well-written and give good information.
Hybrid Mode
