Do you think Two Church services a month is enough?

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by OGIA

I can answer a hearty "YES!" to this.

There are many "groups" who minister to the sick and poor, as our Lord did. But, they do very little, if nothing, for these folks spiritually. Unfortunately, they don't know what being born again entails, so I guess they assume these sick and hurting are going to be saved since "God would never send them to hell" (no matter what the reason is that got them to where they are).

These same groups are sometimes isolated and do not even attend a church. They think that their ministry is only in feeding and clothing. They have no concept of ministering to and being ministered to by a local body, something just as important in Paul's writings as ministering to the poor.

I can say all of that because I know from experience. I've gotten in with a group like this. I pray to God that I can give them something eternally beneficial (not only for themselves, but for those they serve), because they have certainly shown me a true servant's heart in the time I've been with them!

And that is why we need balance! We need to do both! As James said "15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. "

We need both! But I honestly believe that you need to love people UNCONDITIONALLY beyond just wanting to save them. You need to love them whether or not they ever accept the Gospel. Some people are hardened and bitter and it may take years or they may never change. It is just as much a sin to ignore their spiritual needs as it is to ignore their physical needs. That's why we need to do both.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Michlow

And that is why we need balance! We need to do both! As James said "15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. "

We need both!

Michlow, I'm not trying to be contentious, but did you know WHO James is writing that letter to? It's to saved people, and their "brothers and sisters" are other saved people. I say that all the while recognizing the necessity to reach the hungry, poor, destitute, sick, etc who are NOT "saved". I do agree there must be balance, but just wanted to make sure we don't take scripture out of context.

But I honestly believe that you need to love people UNCONDITIONALLY beyond just wanting to save them. You need to love them whether or not they ever accept the Gospel. Some people are hardened and bitter and it may take years or they may never change. It is just as much a sin to ignore their spiritual needs as it is to ignore their physical needs. That's why we need to do both.

You won't get one argument from me about this!!

I'm learning just how long a process this is with some people, and I've really only scratched the surface! There is a population that doesn't CARE about their soul at that moment; they are starving and only want to know what you've got to feed them! I certainly can't blame them. And this is exactly what the Lord encountered, isn't it? He fed thousands, but not many of them ended up following Him. He knew and even said they were following Him for the food.

Originally Posted by Michlow

I think so many are well-meaning, but confused. They truly have a love for and want to save the lost. But they seem to think that they need to get them saved first, and then they will address their physical needs. So they spend all their effort on the vehicle they believe will usher in that salvation...the church (organization). The get involved in building the church, the programs, the "ministries". And they do it with good intentions, but I just believe they are missing something.

Again, I agree; but please don't use this as a reason not to find a local body to fellowship with. As Sister Murphy said, that is what the gifts of the Spirit and the 5-fold ministry is for.

The group I've come into is STARVING spiritually, because all they've been doing is feeding (physically and emotionally) the needs of others for years now. They are weary and discouraged. They don't have the edification (food) a body of believers can and is meant to provided to them, even IF they are not born again (I expect they will be, though! ). They still need that spiritual energy that only comes from a local body through the Holy Ghost.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by OGIA

Michlow, I'm not trying to be contentious, but did you know WHO James is writing that letter to? It's to saved people, and their "brothers and sisters" are other saved people. I say that all the while recognizing the necessity to reach the hungry, poor, destitute, sick, etc who are NOT "saved". I do agree there must be balance, but just wanted to make sure we don't take scripture out of context.

LOL, I know that James is referring to believers, but do you really believe that means that we can ignore the needs of others because they aren't in our church?

I don't think the scripture was out of context at all. He goes on to say that faith without works is dead, right? So how much more can we expect those who can't even perceive that they HAVE a spiritual need to listen to us if we ignore their physical needs?

You won't get one argument from me about this!!

I'm learning just how long a process this is with some people, and I've really only scratched the surface! There is a population that doesn't CARE about their soul at that moement; they are starving and only want to know what you've got to feed them! I certainly can't blame them. And this is exactly what the Lord encountered, isn't it? He fed thousands, but only a hundred or so ended up following Him.


Again, I agree; but please don't use this as a reason not to find a local body to fellowship with. As Sister Murphy said, that is what the gifts of the Spirit and the 5-fold ministry is for.

The group I've come into is STARVING spiritually, because all they've been doing is feeding (physically and emotionally) the needs of others for years now. They are weary and discouraged. They don't have the edification (food) a body of believers can and is meant to provided to them, even IF they are not born again (I expect they will be, though! ). They still need that spiritual energy that only comes from a local body.

I think I said that we need balance! I would love to have a like-minded local body. For now, I make due with what I have

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I would love to have a like-minded local body. For now, I make due with what I have

Anything more from me would probably do damage, so I pray that you find what God has for you.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by OGIA

Anything more from me would probably do damage, so I pray that you find what God has for you.

LOL, I think I am beyond damage. You certainly don't think that i have been around AFF and all its predecessors for 3 years and remained unscathed?

Right now, I am in the place of rebuilding my foundation. I may say or do some radical things, but I am really trying to regain my spiritual bearings. I am in a season. I am certainly not planning on camping out and staying here for ever. But sometimes you learn the most in the wilderness.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I think I am beyond damage.

I don't believe it for one second. You wouldn't be talking the way you are. Unless you're lying, that is.

Originally Posted by Michlow

But sometimes you learn the most in the wilderness.

How about this: sometimes you learn the most from the wilderness?

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by OGIA

I don't believe it for one second. You wouldn't be talking the way you are. Unless you're lying, that is.

I guess I meant damage from the words of others. I have been called every kind of backsliding, apostate, rebellious label that you could possibly imagine. (You should hear the ones I get from preachers when I mention that I don't believe in tithing )

How about this: sometimes you learn the most from the wilderness?

Even better