JP looking our way

pelathais · #1 08-03-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShofarMan

Not sure how I feel about this being posted here but since it was it would not be fair to let Reckhart take the blame (he already has enough to answer for).
In was indeed a thread started by the new owner of APF.

Press him on the details of that alleged "phone call" he claims to have received. He''ll quickly curl up like an armadillo and run and go start another forum.

Also, ask him where he's going to get any of his "25 - 40 year old men." Last I looked they stopped signing up with this thing completely and have begun new lives and ministries elsewhere.

Servetus · #2 08-03-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Press him on the details of that alleged "phone call" he claims to have received. He''ll quickly curl up like an armadillo and run and go start another forum.

Also, ask him where he's going to get any of his "25 - 40 year old men." Last I looked they stopped signing up with this thing completely and have begun new lives and ministries elsewhere.

I am in that age bracket and most certainly believe in a lifestyle of holiness and modesty. The problem isn't the standards, it is putting the wrong emphasis/over emphasis on them. Most churches that drop "standards" end up with very little standards indeed.

mizpeh · #3 08-03-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servetus

Most churches that drop "standards" end up with very little standards indeed.

What do you mean?

Servetus · #4 08-03-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

What do you mean?

Most churches that drop all "standards" end up being very similar to any average Christian denomination or average charismatic church. Basically over time there become no difference between them and the world-and not just the way they dress, but the way they live.

mizpeh · #5 08-03-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servetus

Most churches that drop all "standards" end up being very similar to any average Christian denomination or average charismatic church. Basically over time there become no difference between them and the world-and not just the way they dress, but the way they live.

What do you mean by "the way they live"?

Servetus · #6 08-03-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

What do you mean by "the way they live"?

Basically that they have a Christianity not much different than an average baptist, methodist,etc. They still may have a little bit different doctrine or theology, but overall the commitment to Christ is gone. Frankly, they seem led of the flesh, not the spirit, and from I have seen are in bondage to the things of the flesh.

Now I'm not painting everyone with a broad brush, I know there are good people out there who don't necessarily "keep the standards", all I'm saying is that's a dangereous road. Many would have been much better off having never known, than to know and turn away.

pelathais · #7 08-03-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servetus

Basically that they have a Christianity not much different than an average baptist, methodist,etc. They still may have a little bit different doctrine or theology, but overall the commitment to Christ is gone. Frankly, they seem led of the flesh, not the spirit, and from I have seen are in bondage to the things of the flesh.

Now I'm not painting everyone with a broad brush, I know there are good people out there who don't necessarily "keep the standards", all I'm saying is that's a dangereous road. Many would have been much better off having never known, than to know and turn away.

My experience over years of ministry is that the divorce rate, rates of infidelity, homosexuality, child molestation and criminal activity is as high or higher among professed "Apostolics" and "conservative holiness" types than it is among "baptist, methodist,etc."

I was personally fired from my position in an "Apostolic church" as part of a plan to cover up the fact that a visiting evangelist was involved in adultery.

The man they hired to replace me with is currently sitting in a Texas state prison cell for crimes unrelated to any of that.

Tell me again about your "holiness" code. If you doubt my story - take it over to JP or CAF for verification.

tv1a · #8 08-03-2009, 07:28 PM

Would you ascertain that most churches do not drop standards, they tend to redefine standards which are more in line with scripture and less like man made interpretations?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servetus

I am in that age bracket and most certainly believe in a lifestyle of holiness and modesty. The problem isn't the standards, it is putting the wrong emphasis/over emphasis on them. Most churches that drop "standards" end up with very little standards indeed.

Servetus · #9 08-03-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tv1a

Would you ascertain that most churches do not drop standards, they tend to redefine standards which are more in line with scripture and less like man made interpretations?

I would say that is the exception, not the rule. As a general rule, it seems leaving standards is the proverbial "slippery slope."

Now, as for standards being witchcraft, that is ridiculous-sounds like an axe to grind to me. And while I believe in keeping the standards, I do believe we as a church need to re-evaluate the emphasis we put on them. Indeed there is no such thing as "holiness standards", but only "modesty standards".

Also, I will be the first to admit that there have been many Pentecostals who got the mindset that how they dressed made them holy. That attitude is indeed an enemy of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We need balance, we don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water, which is exactly what most people do when they decide not to keep "standards". They go to the extreme opposite. Fact is there is a ditch on both sides of the road.

tv1a · #10 08-04-2009, 02:56 AM

According to scripture, standards become witchcraft when one attempts to impose them on others by threatening their salvation or judging their walk with God. No axe to grind. Scripture. Reread Romans and Galatians. It ties in rather nicely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servetus

I would say that is the exception, not the rule. As a general rule, it seems leaving standards is the proverbial "slippery slope."

Now, as for standards being witchcraft, that is ridiculous-sounds like an axe to grind to me. And while I believe in keeping the standards, I do believe we as a church need to re-evaluate the emphasis we put on them. Indeed there is no such thing as "holiness standards", but only "modesty standards".

Also, I will be the first to admit that there have been many Pentecostals who got the mindset that how they dressed made them holy. That attitude is indeed an enemy of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We need balance, we don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water, which is exactly what most people do when they decide not to keep "standards". They go to the extreme opposite. Fact is there is a ditch on both sides of the road.