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[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Sigh.

Who has been venemous and hateful?

Let me begin by saying that you haven’t been venomous or hateful. I was primarily referring to another poster in this thread. You’ve been civil. No issue with your posts bro.

We are being clear about what we believe regarding homosexuality at a time when our generations are getting mixed signals. This TV show is not the only one portraying homosexual behavior as normal and acceptable -- try ER, Will and Grace and Desperate Housewives to name just a few.

There will always be mixed signals and especially with television… until only Christians produce all television programming. This is the world we live in. I wouldn’t waste my breath so much with decrying a television show… I’d share the Gospel with more people. That’s the real answer. We can scream and wave our fists all day… it will only perpetuate the division and anger in our nation.

There's a difference between a monarchy and democracy, in your argument about Paul's crusade against marriage. That aside, this thread was not even about that. It was about a television show depicting same-sex couples as parents under the guise of "modern family." I'm happy to debate with you what the Christian response should be in matters of civics, where we all have a duty and responsibility in this great republic, but that wasn't the point of our opinions on this thread.

I agree. We have a civic duty to our Republic a duty to preserve the liberties of all men. Politically I’m rather liberal. On many issues the closest I get to being “conservative” is being libertarian.

You might find it repulsive, you might not? How about see it as God sees it. Do you think he finds it beautiful? Has he changed His mind on blatant sin?

I was given a few books by a very close preacher friend who helped my wife and I navigate some difficult waters. One book in particular is especially interesting. It covers the entire gamut of intimate relations found in Scripture including the different institutions of marriage and relations ordained of God and fully permissible under his Holy Law (monogamous marriage, polygamous marriage, Levirite marriage, concubinage, servant marriage, war brides, and the roles of courtesans, eunuchs, etc.). It examines these institutions and their implications from the perspective of God’s unchanging nature and Holiness. The implications from the Song of Solomon alone left my jawing hanging wide open. It examines the role of various persons throughout Scripture and how God blessed them in the face of what we might consider to be deplorable sin in our more Westernized and puritanical interpretation of Scripture. The book was VERY challenging for me because I was originally raised in the Lord attending an ultra-conservative church. We were so conservative that we didn’t believe in going to a baseball game because we didn’t believe in fresh air. lol The book examines the ethics of conjugal relations in every aspect and in every cultural context in Scripture. You’d be amazed how knowing the context of various passages of Scripture opens a world of meaning and interpretation never considered. I will not elaborate on it here for the sake of respecting the forums standards of biblical interpretation. You may feel free to private message me or email me and I’ll share some of my thoughts more personally and in more detail. I’m not saying that I agree with the book in every instance … but I am saying it presented a strong enough case for me to walk softly and consider that perhaps God isn’t as puritan as most interpretations would have us believe.

And don't just point to other sinful activities (yes, I used the word tragedy, which refers to a death, spiritual death, which implies sin, I wasn't back-peddling in the least or "down-grading" it) to justify the one we are talking about. That's childish logic. Let's be clear, Christians believe the best environment for a child is in a God-fearing home, with two married adults, one mom, one dad who also love the Lord. That there are other forms that don't match this, is in no way a justification of this perverseness that apparently has warped your worldview as well. Let this mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus. Love them. But don't stop calling sin for what it is. The apostles certainly were never afraid to do so.

The law is summed up in this… love God with all your being and love your neighbor as yourself. All of God’s Laws have one purpose… to keep Him preeminent in our lives and to keep us from harming and abusing one another. The principle to keep in mind is that if it isn’t harming another or tearing God down from being our Savior, it is permissible.

I'm sick of this idea of holding to the claim of "realist" when we are dilluting our own Christian ideas and maxims. God's design was not just for the sake of random religious rules, they are the maxim for one's health and for a robust society. We can't prosecute or have the state take same-sex couples children (to inject a political angle), but I most certainly can cry aloud when that once "alternative lifestyle" is being pushed in the homes of families everywhere as innocent, cute and cuddly. It's poison!

I agree with many of your points in all these posts. However, not all do and none of us are above being mistaken, even if our intentions are to be righteous.

I believe that the best way to deal with this if it offends one’s Christian sensibilities is to refuse to watch the program. Hopefully low ratings will crush it. The more we bluster about it the more we generate public interest in it. There may be some on this forum who wouldn’t have watched it prior to seeing this thread…but now their curiosity is peaked.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Let me begin by saying that you haven’t been venomous or hateful. I was primarily referring to another poster in this thread. You’ve been civil. No issue with your posts bro.



There will always be mixed signals and especially with television… until only Christians produce all television programming. This is the world we live in. I wouldn’t waste my breath so much with decrying a television show… I’d share the Gospel with more people. That’s the real answer. We can scream and wave our fists all day… it will only perpetuate the division and anger in our nation.



I agree. We have a civic duty to our Republic a duty to preserve the liberties of all men. Politically I’m rather liberal. On many issues the closest I get to being “conservative” is being libertarian.



I was given a few books by a very close preacher friend who helped my wife and I navigate some difficult waters. One book in particular is especially interesting. It covers the entire gamut of intimate relations found in Scripture including the different institutions of marriage and relations ordained of God and fully permissible under his Holy Law (monogamous marriage, polygamous marriage, Levirite marriage, concubinage, servant marriage, war brides, and the roles of courtesans, eunuchs, etc.). It examines these institutions and their implications from the perspective of God’s unchanging nature and Holiness. The implications from the Song of Solomon alone left my jawing hanging wide open. It examines the role of various persons throughout Scripture and how God blessed them in the face of what we might consider to be deplorable sin in our more Westernized and puritanical interpretation of Scripture. The book was VERY challenging for me because I was originally raised in the Lord attending an ultra-conservative church. We were so conservative that we didn’t believe in going to a baseball game because we didn’t believe in fresh air. lol The book examines the ethics of conjugal relations in every aspect and in every cultural context in Scripture. You’d be amazed how knowing the context of various passages of Scripture opens a world of meaning and interpretation never considered. I will not elaborate on it here for the sake of respecting the forums standards of biblical interpretation. You may feel free to private message me or email me and I’ll share some of my thoughts more personally and in more detail. I’m not saying that I agree with the book in every instance … but I am saying it presented a strong enough case for me to walk softly and consider that perhaps God isn’t as puritan as most interpretations would have us believe.



The law is summed up in this… love God with all your being and love your neighbor as yourself. All of God’s Laws have one purpose… to keep Him preeminent in our lives and to keep us from harming and abusing one another. The principle to keep in mind is that if it isn’t harming another or tearing God down from being our Savior, it is permissible.



I agree with many of your points in all these posts. However, not all do and none of us are above being mistaken, even if our intentions are to be righteous.

I believe that the best way to deal with this if it offends one’s Christian sensibilities is to refuse to watch the program. Hopefully low ratings will crush it. The more we bluster about it the more we generate public interest in it. There may be some on this forum who wouldn’t have watched it prior to seeing this thread…but now their curiosity is peaked.

Aquila, I stepped away from this post confused about your thoughts towards homosexuality. I'm sorry you don't see it helpful to voice our opinions about television shows, particularly ones that are advocating a worldview and lifestyle that is presently not the norm in this society.

The principle to keep in mind is that if it isn’t harming another or tearing God down from being our Savior, it is permissible. That's awfully broad. Is that a Christian idea, or a libertarian idea?

This post is encouraging people not to watch the program. We are not discussing it (which is what internet forums do) and I'm confused where some in this forum stand on these issues. They talk out of both sides of their mouth. Sorry bro. Respect your opinions on many issues, but I'm a little surprised here.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Aquila, I stepped away from this post confused about your thoughts towards homosexuality. I'm sorry you don't see it helpful to voice our opinions about television shows, particularly ones that are advocating a worldview and lifestyle that is presently not the norm in this society.

Homosexuality has always been with us. It's just a subculture in our society. Homosexuals have faced a lot of abuse and part of that is what is causing them to push so hard for acceptance. As for my personal feelings about homosexuality - I'll discuss it in PM but not openly because my thoughts are a little different from the position taken by the forum and I want to respect the rules of the forum because I truly love this forum.

The principle to keep in mind is that if it isn’t harming another or tearing God down from being our Savior, it is permissible. That's awfully broad. Is that a Christian idea, or a libertarian idea?

Jesus said,

" 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." - Matthew 22:37-40

Laws given by God are not predicated upon the notion that God finds something gross. God's laws are specifically inclined to insure that God remains preeminent as Savior and that human beings don't abuse each other. If someone acknowledges Christ as Savior and lives a life that isn't harming another they do well.

This post is encouraging people not to watch the program. We are not discussing it (which is what internet forums do) and I'm confused where some in this forum stand on these issues. They talk out of both sides of their mouth. Sorry bro. Respect your opinions on many issues, but I'm a little surprised here.

Honestly, I understand where you're coming from. However, stop for a moment and think... many of us have studied the issues and spent much time in prayer about them. We've studied the interpretations and based on our personal experience with God we've embraced whatever interpretation we feels expresses His nature best without doing violence to what we know about Him personally. God is gracious and merciful, patient and long suffering. Yes, he is also a judge... however an in depth study of Scripture will show that God isn't so much concerned about some issues as we are. In fact, God has been very permissible to mankind. The various forms of marriage in the Bible illustrate this well.

[MawMaw]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Homosexuality has always been with us. It's just a subculture in our society. Homosexuals have faced a lot of abuse and part of that is what is causing them to push so hard for acceptance. As for my personal feelings about homosexuality - I'll discuss it in PM but not openly because my thoughts are a little different from the position taken by the forum and I want to respect the rules of the forum because I truly love this forum.



Jesus said,

" 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." - Matthew 22:37-40

Laws given by God are not predicated upon the notion that God finds something gross. God's laws are specifically inclined to insure that God remains preeminent as Savior and that human beings don't abuse each other. If someone acknowledges Christ as Savior and lives a life that isn't harming another they do well.



Honestly, I understand where you're coming from. However, stop for a moment and think... many of us have studied the issues and spent much time in prayer about them. We've studied the interpretations and based on our personal experience with God we've embraced whatever interpretation we feels expresses His nature best without doing violence to what we know about Him personally. God is gracious and merciful, patient and long suffering. Yes, he is also a judge... however an in depth study of Scripture will show that God isn't so much concerned about some issues as we are. In fact, God has been very permissible to mankind. The various forms of marriage in the Bible illustrate this well.

Sir, please correct me if I'm reading this post wrong.....but are you trying to say in essence that God is maybe, sorta kinda, okay with homosexuality?