1 John 5:7

jfrog · #1 10-28-2009, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Large number of scholars don't believe this was in the original manuscript, or that it was worded like the KJV does. The NIV, which doesn't use the TR, even words it differently.

Either way, it's not a stumbling block to godhead. The burden of proof is not on the Shema, it's on this newfound theology that holds to three separate persons.

Good job jeffery, you tell me it's not a problem and offer no explanation of why it isn't a problem.

Praxeas · #2 10-28-2009, 11:12 PM

supposedly it does not appear in any MS that forms the TR but Erasmus added it because some early church father refers to it...something like that

Jeffrey · #3 10-29-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

Good job jeffery, you tell me it's not a problem and offer no explanation of why it isn't a problem.

I'm sorry.

It is my opinion that accepting the TR and/or Erasmus version of the text does not conflict with the Shema, that God is one and there are no other gods beside him. "Bearing record" has to do with the testimony of God at work. A pure modalist would explain these records of testimony as proof that the godhead is about the One, eternal God, manifesting himself to His creation, and that these relationships are further defined and to be made sense in light of the next verse "blood, water, and Spirit."

I personally don't accept that rendering of the passage, but only because it doesn't seem to fit.

Here's the ESV

Testimony Concerning the Son of God
6This is he who came(K) by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And(L) the Spirit is the one who testifies, because(M) the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. 9(N) If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God(O) that he has borne concerning his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God(P) has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God(Q) has made him a liar,(R) because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. 11And this is the testimony, that God gave us(S) eternal life, and(T) this life is in his Son. 12(U) Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Here's the Message (more of a commentary/paraphrase than a translation)
6-8Jesus—the Divine Christ! He experienced a life-giving birth and a death-killing death. Not only birth from the womb, but baptismal birth of his ministry and sacrificial death. And all the while the Spirit is confirming the truth, the reality of God's presence at Jesus' baptism and crucifixion, bringing those occasions alive for us. A triple testimony: the Spirit, the Baptism, the Crucifixion. And the three in perfect agreement.