Lot's Revelation of Grace

Baron1710 · #1 10-31-2009, 08:30 PM

Lot was long since dead when Peter called him righteous. You like Peter in Acts but not so much when he declares someone righteous that you can't seem to agree with.

rrford · #2 10-31-2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Lot was long since dead when Peter called him righteous. You like Peter in Acts but not so much when he declares someone righteous that you can't seem to agree with.

Wow. So one can commit incest and still be righteous? Amazing. Are you really going to keep contending that one cannot lose righteousness because of their sinful acts? Still sounds Calvinistic to me and I though this was supposed to be an Apostolic Pentecostal forum.

Baron1710 · #3 10-31-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrford

Wow. So one can commit incest and still be righteous? Amazing. Are you really going to keep contending that one cannot lose righteousness because of their sinful acts? Still sounds Calvinistic to me and I though this was supposed to be an Apostolic Pentecostal forum.

Again Lot was dead. He no longer could commit any acts. You don't scream incest when it was Seth.

Oh here we go. Your not Apostolic...typical. If your attitude defines what is Apostolic I will take it as a compliment.

rrford · #4 10-31-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Again Lot was dead. He no longer could commit any acts. You don't scream incest when it was Seth.

Oh here we go. Your not Apostolic...typical. If your attitude defines what is Apostolic I will take it as a compliment.

Now it is about my attitude? Sorry, I was referring to your beliefs not your attitude. It seems you are bent on making this argumentative.

Is it so hard to believe that Lot was at one point righteous and then fell from righteousness? If you can't see that then your view is Calvinistic. Has nothing to do with attitude.

Like I said, I have never had a thread more misinterpreted. Andyes, Lot received mercy and called it grace. Of course, for the sake of your argument I don't expect you to read the passsage that way.

Baron1710 · #5 10-31-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrford

Now it is about my attitude? Sorry, I was referring to your beliefs not your attitude. It seems you are bent on making this argumentative.

Is it so hard to believe that Lot was at one point righteous and then fell from righteousness? If you can't see that then your view is Calvinistic. Has nothing to do with attitude.

Like I said, I have never had a thread more misinterpreted. Andyes, Lot received mercy and called it grace. Of course, for the sake of your argument I don't expect you to read the passsage that way.

Yes it is hard to believe your position. We don't speak of Someone being righteous after their life was complete if in fact they were not.

That seems to be a completely ludicrous position to me, beyond the realm of common sense.

So the hero's of faith they were probably all lost too since they sinned, but it was a good example while they were doing it all right.

rrford · #6 10-31-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Yes it is hard to believe your position. We don't speak of Someone being righteous after their life was complete if in fact they were not.

That seems to be a completely ludicrous position to me, beyond the realm of common sense.

So the hero's of faith they were probably all lost too since they sinned, but it was a good example while they were doing it all right.

It seems I am talking to a wall. Sorry. Is it so difficulat to understand that Peter may not have been speaking of the end of Lot's days but rather the events of his entering into Sodom? Are you saying that if there is ever a singular verse that attests to one "righteousness" or "rightness" then nothing can take that away?

Judas was okay? Korah was okay?

Baron1710 · #7 10-31-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrford

It seems I am talking to a wall. Sorry. Is it so difficulat to understand that Peter may not have been speaking of the end of Lot's days but rather the events of his entering into Sodom? Are you saying that if there is ever a singular verse that attests to one "righteousness" or "rightness" then nothing can take that away?

Judas was okay? Korah was okay?

There is no indication that Lot was declared unrighteous, yet the Scripture is very clear that he was declared righteous. Peter was speaking from the perspective of Lot having all ready completed his race, it would seem a little odd to speak of him as righteous if that was not the case.

EA · #8 10-31-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Again Lot was dead. He no longer could commit any acts. You don't scream incest when it was Seth.

Oh here we go. Your not Apostolic...typical. If your attitude defines what is Apostolic I will take it as a compliment.

Baron, you are saying something the Bible does not say. There is no record that Seth married his sister.

RevDWW · #9 10-31-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Again Lot was dead. He no longer could commit any acts. You don't scream incest when it was Seth.

Oh here we go. Your not Apostolic...typical. If your attitude defines what is Apostolic I will take it as a compliment.

It appears as thought Peter is talking about Lot while he lived in the Sodom, being uncorrupted by it and rescued because he was just. It doesn't seem to take into account what followed after he left Sodom.

As to the charge of incest, it sounds more like the daughters abused the dad and he didn't knowingly participate.......

Gen 19:33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

Gen 19:35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

So perhaps his righteousness was not sullied because of their unbelief?

EA · #10 10-31-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevDWW

It appears as thought Peter is talking about Lot while he lived in the Sodom, being uncorrupted by it and rescued because he was just. It doesn't seem to take into account what followed after he left Sodom.

As to the charge of incest, it sounds more like the daughters abused the dad and he didn't knowingly participate.......

Gen 19:33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

Gen 19:35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

So perhaps his righteousness was not sullied because of their unbelief?

He is without excuse.