DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,

[Pressing-On]

Oh my goodness, guess what? Hardly anyone I know cares what you think about anything. DKB loves God and is more Apostolic in one skin cell than you are in your entire body frame. Just sayin'.......

Lord, I see I need to totally take a break. You are most annoying, like a horse fly. Have fun on AFF, Danny Boy. You have a platform.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Oh my goodness, guess what? Hardly anyone I know cares what you think about anything. DKB loves God and is more Apostolic in one skin cell than you are in your entire body frame. Just sayin'.......

Lord, I see I need to totally take a break. You are most annoying, like a horse fly. Have fun on AFF, Danny Boy. You have a platform.

Hit your ignore button.

[D. Wright]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Oh my goodness, guess what? Hardly anyone I know cares what you think about anything. DKB loves God and is more Apostolic in one skin cell than you are in your entire body frame. Just sayin'.......

Lord, I see I need to totally take a break. You are most annoying, like a horse fly. Have fun on AFF, Danny Boy. You have a platform.

Sister did you listen to the video or would you rather jump DAII?

[DAII]

Originally Posted by D. Wright

Sister did you listen to the video or would you rather jump DAII?

D. Wright do you agree with that the 3 greatest challenges facing the UPCI in North America is:

1. Maintain Apostolic Identity
2. Maintain Apostolic Unity
3. Get more exposure

??????

When did unity get the "apostolic" qualifier?

[D. Wright]

Originally Posted by DAII

D. Wright do you agree with that the 3 greatest challenges facing the UPCI in North America is:

1. Maintain Apostolic Identity
2. Maintain Apostolic Unity
3. Get more exposure

??????

When did unity get the "apostolic" qualifier?

I do not.
1. Maintain Spirit-filled Identity
2. Maintain UNITY i.e. Acts (one mind one accord)
3. Might get them more exposure

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by DAII

D. Wright do you agree with that the 3 greatest challenges facing the UPCI in North America is:

1. Maintain Apostolic Identity
2. Maintain Apostolic Unity
3. Get more exposure

??????

When did unity get the "apostolic" qualifier?

Maintain? Is that where there are 5,6, or 10 apostolic churches in a given city who don't fellowship one another? Maybe I'm getting the cart before the horse, but I thought there had to BE UNITY, before it could be maintained.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Maintain? Is that where there are 5,6, or 10 apostolic churches in a given city who don't fellowship one another? Maybe I'm getting the cart before the horse, but I thought there had to BE UNITY, before it could be maintained.

and they would be "identified" as Apostolic by the same identifier Jesus suggested in John 13:34-35

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by DAII

D. Wright do you agree with that the 3 greatest challenges facing the UPCI in North America is:

1. Maintain Apostolic Identity
2. Maintain Apostolic Unity
3. Get more exposure

??????

When did unity get the "apostolic" qualifier?

This is all inward looking, what can we do to look better to the world, the focus is completely wrong. But when that has been your trademark, "the look", it is hard to move to the simplicity of the "Almost Too Good To Be True News"!!!

For the most part when there has been exposure, there has been decrease not increase. Seeing LK on YouTube, I'd say that trend will continue. The focus on outward dress as the AI, is so the wrong focus. Jesus should be the focus, and let the membership find Jesus and be Jesus in the world and the dress code will not be any issue either inside the body or outside.

Pleasing one another in our appearance and religiosity, is just idolatry!!

[Justin]

Originally Posted by crakjak

This is all inward looking, what can we do to look better to the world, the focus is completely wrong. But when that has been your trademark, "the look", it is hard to move to the simplicity of the "Almost Too Good To Be True News"!!!

For the most part when there has been exposure, there has been decrease not increase. Seeing LK on YouTube, I'd say that trend will continue. The focus on outward dress as the AI, is so the wrong focus. Jesus should be the focus, and let the membership find Jesus and be Jesus in the world and the dress code will not be any issue either inside the body or outside.

Pleasing one another in our appearance and religiosity, is just idolatry!!

Do you have any statistics to prove that?

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Justin

Do you have any statistics to prove that?

Measuring the exposure of any entity can be a tricky thing ... many factors ... numerical growth, number of visitors, marketing, etc ... A small entity can impact and have huge exposure as oppose to a large organization not effectively reaching the masses.

However, if we are to examine EXPOSURE to a core factor like the amount of churches that have sprung up in communities as preaching points throughout North America and worldwide ... the answer is Crakjak is probably wrong and right.

Here is some data that shows the numerical "growth" of the UPCI to about the late 1990's (source: spiritualabuse.org)

Out of all the Oneness (also known as Apostolic) churches, the United Pentecostal Church is considered the largest.

In the organization's report on the growth statistics of the UPCI from 1945 through 1999, it is interesting that the UPCI compares its statistics with the Assembly of God. If the UPCI truly wants to compare growth, why not do so with other Apostolic churches? How does their growth compare to the PAW or ALJC? Below are some details of the report.

In 1945 the UPC had 521 churches and as of 1999 they had 3892.

From 1998 to 1999 they added 31 churches, which was an .8% growth.

(This is the net amount after subtracting the churches which closed or left the organization from the new ones which started.) This is certainly not an indicative of the 'enormous' growth some members claim. According to their records, on the average 147 new churches are added each year and 101 churches close or leave the UPCI. According to the official web site of the UPCI, they now have 3876 churches (down from 1999 figures), with an estimated constituency of 600,000. (These are all North America figures.)

In 1945 the UPC had 1838 ministers and as of 1999 they had 8372. From 1998to 1999 they added 153 ministers, which was a 1.86% growth. They had, as of 1999, 4480 more licensed ministers than they had churches.

In 1986 they gained 165 churches and lost 92; in 1987 they gained 175 and lost 97; in 1988 they gained 144 and lost 85; in 1989 they gained 172 and lost 111; in 1990 they gained 137 and lost 122; in 1991 they gained 147 and lost 91; in 1992 they gained 145 and lost 91; in 1993 they gained 136 and lost 177 (This was when the yearly affirmation took effect.); in 1994 they gained 146 and lost 98; in 1995 they gained 154 and lost 93; in 1996 they gained 130 and lost 78; and in 1997 they gained 123 and lost 78. From 1986 through 1997 the UPC did not average a net of more than 47 new churches per year in a 12 year period.

To bring it home, in 1982 New Jersey had 9 churches and in 1984 there were 11. That was an increase of one per year. In 2001 they had 20. So from 1982 to 2001, New Jersey added 11 churches, a growth rate of less than 1 per year. (This was taken from UPCI Church Directories.) It is evident the UPC ministry is growing at a much greater rate than their churches.

As of 2007 there are 4,358 churches ... adding 466 churches from 1999.

That is about 1 UPCI church for every 70,000 Americans.

If we were to compare global population of 6 billion people to the amount of UPCI churches world wide and here in America as of 2007 ... (32709churches) ... that is about 1 UPCI church per 2 million people on the planet.

One could argue this is incremental growth ...

but if we compare the percentage rates of the growth in population here in America and worldwide to the annual percentage rate of churches in the org since 1945 ... we no doubt would see a huge disparity in the negative column.

The question would be has the limited growth of churches kept up with population?