Read Segraves on "letting down hair"

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

I heard an extensive dissertation by LS as he carefully developed the definition of power as exousia, authority, including all the implications implied by this word. He does NOT define power as dunamis. Also his anectodal references to "letting hair down" are in agreement with DKB's allowance for such an unconfentional act as a means of "focusing individual faith". I would say that LS is in agreement with both DKB and DS regarding the understanding that there are NO "magical powers" in the substance of the hair, and LS never suggests to "let down hair" in order to access "supernatural magical powers" as some slanderous and libellous individual would like to suggest. Everyone Gould read both DKB's and DS's papers, take not of the areas they agree on, and make allowances for differing opnions in the areas where they disagree.

I got out my thumbdrive where I transcribed a message by LS - "Holiness- Separation from Worldliness" 12/31/96.

This is the portion of the message that covers the hair. The first portion is about make-up.

Now, listen to this. This is the most fabulous, fascinating thing I've ever contemplated. I Cor 11:15 says, a literal translation from Greek, "But, a women, if she wears her hair long, a glory to her it is, because the long hair, instead of a veil has been given her."

That messes up a whole group of people. There is an ornery streak in me. I was in England, no names mentioned, farther than that, but I was in England. You know how you travel and you get all jet lagged out. Not really thinking. I was just right there. I went to a service in London. Had never been there before. I looked out over the audience, from the platform. They all had these veils on. I preached and did my thing for Jesus, but (laughing) in the car going home after church I reared up in the back seat, over the front seat, and said, "What are all of these veils. It looks like a bunch of Catholics." The driver nearly lost control of the car, but I'm jetlagged out. He said, "Oh, if you read the scriptures." I said, "Nonsense, that isn't what the Bible says. The covering is the hair, not the veil." I'm just into it, I'm NOT thinking.

All of a sudden, (laughing) it occurred to me I'm clear out on the end of a limb and this guy doesn't believe what I believe. SO, the next night in the services, we had a powerful move of God and one of the women got to dancing and she lost her hat. Of course, they are taught that you can't, a women can't worship without this veil. (laughing) I told you that I was ornery. I am. I saw that hat go rolling down the isle and she went to stop and get it and I grabbed her hand and pulled her away from the hat and continued to pour on the worship. She kept dancing and shouting until she was convinced that you can be blessed without wearing a covering. (clapping) I did it all night long! I majored in it (laughing)

VEIL IS MAN MADE. HAIR IS GOD MADE. GOD GAVE YOU A COVERING!!!!! I WANT ALL YOU LADIES TO SHOUT, "I'VE GOT THAT." SAY, "I'M GOING TO KEEP IT!"

(Men, probably on platform saying, "Praise the Lord, good").

Then the Bible goes on to say, "For this cause, ought the women to have power on head because of the angels." That is a fascinating and intriguing study. "For this cause, ought..." "Ought" in the Greek means to "owe or be indebted". "For this cause, ought the women to have power." The word "power" means, "authority, ability, authority, rule". "...on her head because of the angels." The word "because" is translated to mean, "through, by or with". So, if you put it together, what I Cor II:10 is saying, "For this cause ought the women to have power on her head because of the angels." Therefore, the women is indebted or owes her authority on her head with the angels.

Power. The original meaning is the "ability to perform an act, the right, the authority". Now, get this, "and the permission conferred upon her by a higher court".

"For this cause, the women is owing or indebted to the inward power, which is conferred upon her by a higher court with and by the angels."

The word, "power" comes from the Greek word, I think, "exousia". It means "as a divinely given authority act". " Exousia" implies, "freedom for the whole community".

I have always known, in the Spirit, that in our churches and in our homes where our women did not cut their hair that there was some kind of angelic power and protection that was there continuously, but I didn't know until this year, until I went to the Greek and dug it out.

I didn't know how really accurate I was. I've always felt it in the Spirit, but now I can prove it biblically, biblically, that in churches where our women do not cut their hair. It's not the long and short of it, ladies. It is "uncut". Don't tell me you have long hair and then keep trimming the ends so that it doesn't get any longer than where it is now. That's not the issue. The issue is not long or short. The issue is "uncut" because in some cultures women's hair, it does not grow long. So, it's not long or short. That's not the issue. The issue is "uncut".

I have known and now can prove it, spiritually from the Bible, that in our churches, in our homes, where our women, our ladies do not cut their hair there is a kind of angelic protection that flows out from them for the whole Christian community.

Powerful! Powerful!

If a women wants to be free, say, "free", she lets her hair grow. If she wants to be bound, she does not let her hair grow, but if she allows her hair to grow long, uncut, in compliance with God's relationship to man, then the church community has a freedom in the Spirit which does not exist without her compliance.

I've watched this year. I know some men that are powerful in the Spirit. Powerfully used by God. But, I've watched a couple of them, even this year, they came up against a problem and they could not find an answer to. They couldn't come to any kind of an answer, but the wife, who is in the background, usually, they had never cut their hair. One day he walked in just twisting his hands, one of them in particular, and she came to him and she said, "This is the answer here." And she mapped out an answer that was so perfect, he staggered at the wisdom in it. Do you know why she got a hold of that and he didn't? Because ladies, among us, who do not cut their hair are entangled with angels and the wisdom and power of angels that men are not connected to and they cannot be connected to it.

Only eternity will reveal how many times in our homes and in our churches, where our women have not cut their hair, only eternity will reveal how many times an angel of the Lord has stepped out and pulled a child back from oncoming traffic. How many times your husband, on the way to work, suddenly and angel stepped between him and an oncoming car. Only eternity will reveal that.

Steve Richardson, who is one of the most powerful, anointed songwriters in our movement. He wrote the song, "Daystar". He also wrote a song, "Just to walk with you". Just to walk with Him means more than all this world to me. He told me and you can talk to him and he'll tell you the same story.

His mother is one of the most godly looking women you will ever meet. Her hair is uncut. He came from a background like that. He said, "One day, on the circuitous route around Indianapolis he was driving and found himself sandwiched between semis and he was on the inside lane and there was an oncoming car heading straight toward him for a head on collision and there was no way to escape because there were semis all along this side and he was hemmed in on this side with the media arrangement and there was no way to get out. He simply cried, "Jesus!!". He said, when he came to, his car was ahead of the Semis that collided. Parked on the side of the road, ahead of the accident one of the truck drivers got out of the truck, came running to him, reached through the window and said, "I have never seen anything like this in my life. But, something picked your car up, carried it through the air and carried it to the side of the road."

I want to belong to a church like that! I want to belong to a church that has those kinds of testimonies. I heard a story this year, where a women forgot and left a window upstairs open. Her little child was up there playing. She was downstairs. She heard a scream from the street outside on the sidewalk and came running out. Her little child had climbed up on the window sill and a passerby on the sidewalk saw the child, on the window ledge, and the child fell out of the second story window fell and she screamed and when the mother came out she said, "What happened?" And this passerby was trembling saying, "Your child fell out of that open window, but there was a man standing on the ground and he caught her."

That is the presence and power of angels. "For this cause ought the women to have power upon her head because of the angels." Power with the angels. Power!!!

Life your hands for a moment. I prayed, today, that angels would come in among the people, tonight, and touch you in such a way that you would be so transformed in your thinking and in your mind that you would never be the same again. Let your voice out for just a moment. That's it. Let your voice out. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus restore us to dedication and consecration, after the ways of God, not after the traditions of man nor the way of the world, nor the ways of religion. Let there be such a power among us that the sinner will fall upon his knees and cry out to God.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I've watched this year. I know some men that are powerful in the Spirit. Powerfully used by God. But, I've watched a couple of them, even this year, they came up against a problem and they could not find an answer to. They couldn't come to any kind of an answer, but the wife, who is in the background, usually, they had never cut their hair. One day he walked in just twisting his hands, one of them in particular, and she came to him and she said, "This is the answer here." And she mapped out an answer that was so perfect, he staggered at the wisdom in it. Do you know why she got a hold of that and he didn't? Because ladies, among us, who do not cut their hair are entangled with angels and the wisdom and power of angels that men are not connected to and they cannot be connected to it.

Only eternity will reveal how many times in our homes and in our churches, where our women have not cut their hair, only eternity will reveal how many times an angel of the Lord has stepped out and pulled a child back from oncoming traffic. How many times your husband, on the way to work, suddenly and angel stepped between him and an oncoming car. Only eternity will reveal that.

This literally makes my stomach turn.

He is preaching that wives have a power that THEIR GODLY HUSBANDS DON'T HAVE, just because of their hair.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

This literally makes my stomach turn.

He is preaching that wives have a power that THEIR GODLY HUSBANDS DON'T HAVE, just because of their hair.

Girl! If I get a bigger allowance for that, I'm good!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I got out my thumbdrive where I transcribed a message by LS - "Holiness- Separation from Worldliness" 12/31/96.

This is the portion of the message that covers the hair. The first portion is about make-up.

So guys are up the creek without a paddle. Men have no angelic covering, churches with prayed up Holy Ghost filled men have no bearing on the angelic presence? That is what LS is saying.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So guys are up the creek without a paddle. Men have no angelic covering, churches with prayed up Holy Ghost filled men have no bearing on the angelic presence? That is what LS is saying.

Sucks to be you! Sorry, I shouldn't have said that!

[Praxeas]

I bet LS got his definition from strongs.

The sentence is in the accusative

90.44 διάe (with the accusative): a marker of a participant constituting the cause or reason for an event or state—‘because of, on account of, for this reason.’ καὶ ἔσεσθε μισούμενοι ὑπὸ πάντων διὰ τὸ ὄνομά μου ‘you will be hated by everyone because of me’ (literally ‘… because of my name’) Mt 10:22; ἔδησεν αὐτὸν ἐν φυλακῇ διὰ Ηρῳδιάδα ‘he put him in jail because of Herodias’ Mk 6:17. In Mk 6:17 Herodias clearly constituted the reason or cause for Herod putting John in prison, but there is a sense in which διὰ Ηρῳδιάδα may also indicate Herod’s purpose in trying to please Herodias, and therefore one may translate ‘for the sake of Herodias
Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.). New York: United Bible societies.

3. Causally “on account of,” “for the sake of,” with a certain final element when the accusative of person is used (e.g., Mk. 2:27; 1 Cor. 8:11), and sometimes the accusative of thing (e.g., Mt. 15:3, 6; 1 Cor. 9:23; Phil. 2:30). The double diá in Rom. 4:25 offers some difficulty in view of the tension between a purely causal rendering of the first half and the parallelism of the statement. The point is perhaps that Christ died “because of our sins and in order to expiate them” (cf. 1 Tim. 1:16). In Rom. 11:28 the Jews are enemies in order that salvation may come to the Gentiles but beloved on account of the fathers; the parallelism here is purely rhetorical.
Kittel, G., Friedrich, G., & Bromiley, G. W. (1995). Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (150). Grand Rapids, MI: W.B. Eerdmans.

[Praxeas]

From the Theological Dictionary of the NT by Kittel, published by Eerdmans, in Biblical times, when you entered Corinth, at the top of the hill was the Temple of Diana. The first sailor, from the sea to the top of the hill, was given free access to the whole of the harlot harems of Diana. The prostitutes, in the Temple, all had short hair. It had been given as a sacrifice to the Goddess Diana.

I can't find this in the TDNT

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So guys are up the creek without a paddle. Men have no angelic covering, churches with prayed up Holy Ghost filled men have no bearing on the angelic presence? That is what LS is saying.

You guys are totally missing the big picture... the head of man in CHRIST!!!! lol.... Suggesting a woman has authority in the spirit realm that a man doesn't have is a far stretch, I agree with that. That language needs to be calibrated as well... but to say that a woman who is obedient and submissive has authority in the spirit realm that men or women who are not obedient and submissive do not have, is absolutely true.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

You guys are totally missing the big picture... the head of man in CHRIST!!!! lol.... Suggesting a woman has authority in the spirit realm that a man doesn't have is a far stretch, I agree with that. That language needs to be calibrated as well... but to say that a woman who is obedient and submissive has authority in the spirit realm that men or women who are not obedient and submissive do not have, is absolutely true.

Why the obsessive focus on women only? Don't you think it's probably more of a blatant attempt to give women a deeper reason for uncut hair than anything else? Tell a woman scripture says something that isn't crystal clear but is POSSIBLE is one thing--she may or may not go with the safest bet. However, if you appeal to her desire to please God and protect those she loves? She's not going to even question it, because you've not only given her a purpose, but you've instilled fear.

It's manipulation, PURE AND SIMPLE. If it weren't, we would hear just as many sermons about men and their short hair.

And don't tell me that LS thinks men have the same power; he said in one of his sermons that he has been talking to pastors about a problem in the church, a problem that apparently the godly pastor couldn't solve. In would walk his wife with her uncut hair and offer the necessary wisdom, where her husband's failed.

Two things:

1. Men don't have the same power in their short hair as women do in their long hair--THAT message is clearly relayed.

2. Men are made out to be insignificant and inferior in regard to spiritual matters.

The LANGUAGE? The language is clearly representing what LS (and others) believe. Unfortunately for their defenders. LOL!!!! It isn't the LANGUAGE that needs to change; it's the belief system.

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Why the obsessive focus on women only? Don't you think it's probably more of a blatant attempt to give women a deeper reason for uncut hair than anything else? Tell a woman scripture says something that isn't crystal clear but is POSSIBLE is one thing--she may or may not go with the safest bet. However, if you appeal to her desire to please God and protect those she loves? She's not going to even question it, because you've not only given her a purpose, but you've instilled fear.

It's manipulation, PURE AND SIMPLE. If it weren't, we would hear just as many sermons about men and their short hair.

And don't tell me that LS thinks men have the same power; he said in one of his sermons that he has been talking to pastors about a problem in the church, a problem that apparently the godly pastor couldn't solve. In would walk his wife with her uncut hair and offer the necessary wisdom, where her husband's failed.

Two things:

1. Men don't have the same power in their short hair as women do in their long hair--THAT message is clearly relayed.

2. Men are made out to be insignificant and inferior in regard to spiritual matters.

The LANGUAGE? The language is clearly representing what LS (and others) believe. Unfortunately for their defenders. LOL!!!! It isn't the LANGUAGE that needs to change; it's the belief system.

I understand your concern... I would agree that uncut hair doesn't give a woman spiritual wisdom that she cannot obtain through her own spirituality through obedience and submission to God. A woman spiritual woman, obedient and submitted to God, may indeed have wisdom into matters that her husband cannot or hasn't received an answer for. A word of wisdom can flow through anyone whom God chooses, but doesn't flow through everyone all the time. God can deal with a godly woman in wisdom at times He is not dealing directly with the husband. It's not directly connected with uncut hair, but it is directly connected with spiritual and submission... thus a pastor's wife who has uncut hair (i.e. obedient and submitted) may indeed receive knowledge or wisdom from God that her husband isn't privy to in the spirit. But this CAN and DOES work the other way too... sometimes, more often than not probably, God will reveal things to the husband that he doesn't reveal to the wife. It's a God thing either way.

I can see how some would have a problem with the way it is presented, but in reality, if you parse LS's language here, it is not as "unscriptural" as some would have us believe. I see what you're saying regarding manipulation, but I do not think that is the case at all. I think encouraging "the flock" to be obedient and submitted to the instructions of 1 Cor 11 regarding hair, indeed does carry weight in the spirit realm, as much as submission to any other instruction in scripture does. For apostle Paul to spend a half chapter in the Bible dealing with authority, submittedness, and the God-ordained symbol of that submittedness, certainly warrants a single sermon all to itself devoted to this issue.

You can say that Paul is being manipulative by framing his instructions regarding hair in issues of submittedness, authority, angels, God, Christ, man, flow etc... but it's the way God ordained it to be framed. Paul didn't give undue emphasis regarding hair, for at least 5 times in 1 Cor he instructs that this epistle is for "all the churches". For LS or anyone else to go to "all the churches" and teach the principles and application of 1 Cor 11 is NOT unwarranted, and is absolutlely appropriate. JMHO....