Noah and the Ark

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I wouldn't tell them that they'll burn in Hell. But I would tell them that this is God's Word.

Think of it like this... the Bible has been preserved without any major alteration for thousands of years. Evolutionary discoveries are retracted every year because of fraudulent data. Who's report will you believe?

Being a believer means believing in an all powerful God who isn't limited by scientific laws or theories. He is so grand he leaves all scientists, and even many many believers baffled. Welcome to the world of the mystical and supernatural.

I believe that the more we water it down for their "acceptance" the more we'll loose in the long run.

True, but the bible has never been under the scrutiny as it is now. It needs to be able to survive the test of simple common sense if it is to be accepted. It is impossible to get someone to the cross of Jesus Christ (the only place that matters) if they keep tripping over whales eating people, arks carrying 2 billion elephants, and God ordering people to kill people.

After all, why don't we believe in Santa Claus? Well, for starters, it's impossible for one guy to visit every house on earth in one night. How can one guy be in that many malls across the U.S.? Enquiring minds wanna know. And as insulting as that may sound, we're up against a culture that sees Noah like Santa Claus. If the best line we can come up with is, "Because the bible says so", we're gonna lose, and statistically, we are losing. Big time. The American Church is sliding numerically just like the European church did a few decades ago. We're headed toward dormancy. If we don't step up our game, the "latter rain" is going to become a drought.

[n david]

Originally Posted by notofworks

And as insulting as that may sound, we're up against a culture that sees Noah like Santa Claus. If the best line we can come up with is, "Because the bible says so", we're gonna lose, and statistically, we are losing. Big time. The American Church is sliding numerically just like the European church did a few decades ago. We're headed toward dormancy. If we don't step up our game, the "latter rain" is going to become a drought.

Noah and biblical history isn't the reason for dwindling numbers in churches. The reason for dwindling numbers is because a lot of churches, possibly the majority of christian churches in america have no power. Lives are unchanged, people can go clubbin' and bump n grind on friday and saturday then sing in the choir on sunday. You can live life and party like a rockstar and still be on the church board or in a church ministry. Churches have become centers for so-called "social justice" and have become politically correct. There is not black and white; no naming sin as such. Instead sin is tolerated as merely being human and fallible. There is no hell, no judgement for sin.

Fortunately I believe there will be a day when some churches finally wake up, shake off the dust, get back to the Bible and there will be a final great awakening.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by n david

Noah and biblical history isn't the reason for dwindling numbers in churches. The reason for dwindling numbers is because a lot of churches, possibly the majority of christian churches in america have no power. Lives are unchanged, people can go clubbin' and bump n grind on friday and saturday then sing in the choir on sunday. You can live life and party like a rockstar and still be on the church board or in a church ministry. Churches have become centers for so-called "social justice" and have become politically correct. There is not black and white; no naming sin as such. Instead sin is tolerated as merely being human and fallible. There is no hell, no judgement for sin.

Fortunately I believe there will be a day when some churches finally wake up, shake off the dust, get back to the Bible and there will be a final great awakening.

Even the churches that are known to forbid and chasten such behavior are in decline. People are constantly being fed this "either/or" line of reasoning:

"Either fundamentalism is true, the earth is 6,000 years old and the continents were covered by a flood just 4,000 years ago or you might as well go out and go clubbin' and bump n grind on friday and saturday then sing in the choir on sunday. You can live life and party like a rockstar and still be on the church board or in a church ministry..."

So, what do people do when the only choices are "clubbin' like a rock star" or believing foolishness?

How about the obvious and often unmentioned choice? The decision to accept the natural world as God has created it, and accept it on both God's and nature's terms? This acceptance involves an understanding of cause and effect.

If you have a cause like natural sexual procreation you will have an effect like biological evolution among the offspring. This is just accepting nature on its own terms.

Also: If you go "clubbin' like a rock star" every Friday and Saturday night, your life will bear the results of such behavior and you'll suffer the consequences. This would be an example of refusing to accept life and reality on its terms.

Simple cause and effect. Like John 7:37-38. Cause and effect.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by n david

Noah and biblical history isn't the reason for dwindling numbers in churches. The reason for dwindling numbers is because a lot of churches, possibly the majority of christian churches in america have no power. Lives are unchanged, people can go clubbin' and bump n grind on friday and saturday then sing in the choir on sunday. You can live life and party like a rockstar and still be on the church board or in a church ministry. Churches have become centers for so-called "social justice" and have become politically correct. There is not black and white; no naming sin as such. Instead sin is tolerated as merely being human and fallible. There is no hell, no judgement for sin.

Fortunately I believe there will be a day when some churches finally wake up, shake off the dust, get back to the Bible and there will be a final great awakening.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by n david

Noah and biblical history isn't the reason for dwindling numbers in churches. The reason for dwindling numbers is because a lot of churches, possibly the majority of christian churches in america have no power. Lives are unchanged, people can go clubbin' and bump n grind on friday and saturday then sing in the choir on sunday. You can live life and party like a rockstar and still be on the church board or in a church ministry. Churches have become centers for so-called "social justice" and have become politically correct. There is not black and white; no naming sin as such. Instead sin is tolerated as merely being human and fallible. There is no hell, no judgement for sin.

Fortunately I believe there will be a day when some churches finally wake up, shake off the dust, get back to the Bible and there will be a final great awakening.

Then why aren't Pentecostal churches bursting at the seams? We believe in the infilling of the Spirit, our churches are alive, lives are changed, etc. etc. We lose people just as quickly as other churches do. Our teenagers are hitting the door just as quickly as the ones at the other churches.

I don't personally think Noah and the Ark is what's keeping them out, either, but something is missing. Something more than just lack of 'power' and 'changed lives'.



(I personally think what is missing is true relationship with Jesus....somehow a lot of people just aren't getting that)

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Then why aren't Pentecostal churches bursting at the seams? We believe in the infilling of the Spirit, our churches are alive, lives are changed, etc. etc. We lose people just as quickly as other churches do. Our teenagers are hitting the door just as quickly as the ones at the other churches.

I don't personally think Noah and the Ark is what's keeping them out, either, but something is missing. Something more than just lack of 'power' and 'changed lives'.



(I personally think what is missing is true relationship with Jesus....somehow a lot of people just aren't getting that)

One of the issues I can see is that "church" today is a corporation, a money making enterprise. It's business. Those who attend house churches are far more satisfied with their spirituality than Christians who attend church. Why? The fellowship is deep, private, and intimate. Church is a Sunday show with entertaining music and message. Sadly, the way we do church doesn't lend itself to "intimate relationship" between each other or Jesus.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Aquila

One of the issues I can see is that "church" today is a corporation, a money making enterprise. It's business. Those who attend house churches are far more satisfied with their spirituality than Christians who attend church. Why? The fellowship is deep, private, and intimate. Church is a Sunday show with entertaining music and message. Sadly, the way we do church doesn't lend itself to "intimate relationship" between each other or Jesus.

I think that when people first come, they are looking for a true relationship with Jesus. And they start out that way. But for many, it quickly deteriorates into merely religion. They start walking the walk, talking the talk, and pretty soon the relationship with Jesus falls away.

I do agree that the way we do church does contribute to this problem.

But, this is a hijack, not really on topic for this thread.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Then why aren't Pentecostal churches bursting at the seams? We believe in the infilling of the Spirit, our churches are alive, lives are changed, etc. etc. We lose people just as quickly as other churches do. Our teenagers are hitting the door just as quickly as the ones at the other churches.

I don't personally think Noah and the Ark is what's keeping them out, either, but something is missing. Something more than just lack of 'power' and 'changed lives'.



(I personally think what is missing is true relationship with Jesus....somehow a lot of people just aren't getting that)

This is probably the biggest reason of all. Second, I don't see the power in our churches we should be seeing. I believe every service when someone comes for prayer there should be miracles of healing. Deliverances. Signs and wonders.

But I believe it is coming, I'm not sure what is holding it back.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Esther

This is probably the biggest reason of all. Second, I don't see the power in our churches we should be seeing. I believe every service when someone comes for prayer there should be miracles of healing. Deliverances. Signs and wonders.

But I believe it is coming, I'm not sure what is holding it back.

I don't believe that such things were ever meant to be the norm for the church.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I don't believe that such things were ever meant to be the norm for the church.

Why?