Noah and the Ark

[NotforSale]

I see that this Thread has shifted a little bit, and for good reason. Noah and the Ark was a miracle, right? OK, assume it was. Everything about what happened, shouldn't have, but did, because of a Supernatural event. Science and facts just went out the window. No rhyme or reason, it just did. (Please notice the whole point of this story; FEAR. If the Church ain’t lining up, get the message out about Noah! That’ll teach em!)

I will be honest about the "Miracle" thing. I see Creation as that, a Creation. God made what we see, feel, and touch, and the obvious signature is there, at least for me. Just like a Painting, the stroke of the brush warrants the responsibility of someone. I really don't see any guess work with Creation. In fact, I don't see it as a miracle, and, I see God making things that can be measured, weighed, and tested. The Earth is not a mistake; it was designed with a purpose and a reason.

I've been serving the Lord in the Apostolic Church for over 30 years. I've been in more prayer lines than I can count. I've prayed for people, fasted for needs, and have pastored for 14 years. I've seen many claim a miracle, but have seen later that they either lied, were pressured to say they were healed, or that chance was simply in the equation. I've never seen blind eyes open or the cripple walk again.

I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but the whole miracle crusade thing, and celebrities like Benny Hen, have soured my stomach over trusting in things that never happen. It becomes a mental game, the mind playing tricks. Maybe I'm in sin? Maybe we are not praying hard enough? Let's try harder? Let's tarry? Keep believing!! Come on, Trust in the Lord! Don't stop! Don't give up! This has probably driven more people away from church than what it has drawn. False hopes get old. Empty dreams leave one weak.

We had a Missionary from the UPC stop by our church in the 80's. He told us numerous stories of things that God had done in Africa. He told us a young boy's legs grew back during the night, sending the whole village into Revival. I believed every word, and my Faith went through the roof. God could do anything!! Well, when I became a Pastor, I found out this guy was a fraud. He blatantly lied to Churches all over the Nation so he could get financial support.

We went to a Healing Crusade a few years back. What a circus. People were being called out of the crowd, "You've got a back problem!!” (Yeah, well who doesn't when you get old?) After an Earth Shattering Prayer and a bunch of screaming, the preacher stuffed a microphone in their face, "So, How do you FEEL???" All eyes upon them, what do you expect them to say, "Just terrible!"

Church has become a place of emotional letdown. We keep expecting to see something great or supernatural, but Life is just Life. We work, love, eat, rest, get old, and die. And as age comes upon us Baby Boomers, we aren't the dumb little, pot smoking, kids of the 60's anymore. We've seen life and tested her waters. We see what Religion has done to Planet Earth, and that we may have been manipulated when we were young and zealous.

I really have yet to meet someone who can tell me that beyond any shadow of doubt, God Healed them, and I find this strange after all these years. So, this if for all you out there who wonder why I feel the way I do, and why the Facts are more important to me than ever before.

Just being honest.................

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I see that this Thread has shifted a little bit, and for good reason. Noah and the Ark was a miracle, right? OK, assume it was. Everything about what happened, shouldn't have, but did, because of a Supernatural event. Science and facts just went out the window. No rhyme or reason, it just did. (Please notice the whole point of this story; FEAR. If the Church ain’t lining up, get the message out about Noah! That’ll teach em!)

I will be honest about the "Miracle" thing. I see Creation as that, a Creation. God made what we see, feel, and touch, and the obvious signature is there, at least for me. Just like a Painting, the stroke of the brush warrants the responsibility of someone. I really don't see any guess work with Creation. In fact, I don't see it as a miracle, and, I see God making things that can be measured, weighed, and tested. The Earth is not a mistake; it was designed with a purpose and a reason.

I've been serving the Lord in the Apostolic Church for over 30 years. I've been in more prayer lines than I can count. I've prayed for people, fasted for needs, and have pastored for 14 years. I've seen many claim a miracle, but have seen later that they either lied, were pressured to say they were healed, or that chance was simply in the equation. I've never seen blind eyes open or the cripple walk again.

I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but the whole miracle crusade thing, and celebrities like Benny Hen, have soured my stomach over trusting in things that never happen. It becomes a mental game, the mind playing tricks. Maybe I'm in sin? Maybe we are not praying hard enough? Let's try harder? Let's tarry? Keep believing!! Come on, Trust in the Lord! Don't stop! Don't give up! This has probably driven more people away from church than what it has drawn. False hopes get old. Empty dreams leave one weak.

We had a Missionary from the UPC stop by our church in the 80's. He told us numerous stories of things that God had done in Africa. He told us a young boy's legs grew back during the night, sending the whole village into Revival. I believed every word, and my Faith went through the roof. God could do anything!! Well, when I became a Pastor, I found out this guy was a fraud. He blatantly lied to Churches all over the Nation so he could get financial support.

We went to a Healing Crusade a few years back. What a circus. People were being called out of the crowd, "You've got a back problem!!” (Yeah, well who doesn't when you get old?) After an Earth Shattering Prayer and a bunch of screaming, the preacher stuffed a microphone in their face, "So, How do you FEEL???" All eyes upon them, what do you expect them to say, "Just terrible!"

Church has become a place of emotional letdown. We keep expecting to see something great or supernatural, but Life is just Life. We work, love, eat, rest, get old, and die. And as age comes upon us Baby Boomers, we aren't the dumb little, pot smoking, kids of the 60's anymore. We've seen life and tested her waters. We see what Religion has done to Planet Earth, and that we may have been manipulated when we were young and zealous.

I really have yet to meet someone who can tell me that beyond any shadow of doubt, God Healed them, and I find this strange after all these years. So, this if for all you out there who wonder why I feel the way I do, and why the Facts are more important to me than ever before.

Just being honest.................

I would stand and applaud, and greatly relate to every single word you said.

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I see that this Thread has shifted a little bit, and for good reason. Noah and the Ark was a miracle, right? OK, assume it was. Everything about what happened, shouldn't have, but did, because of a Supernatural event. Science and facts just went out the window. No rhyme or reason, it just did. (Please notice the whole point of this story; FEAR. If the Church ain’t lining up, get the message out about Noah! That’ll teach em!)

I will be honest about the "Miracle" thing. I see Creation as that, a Creation. God made what we see, feel, and touch, and the obvious signature is there, at least for me. Just like a Painting, the stroke of the brush warrants the responsibility of someone. I really don't see any guess work with Creation. In fact, I don't see it as a miracle, and, I see God making things that can be measured, weighed, and tested. The Earth is not a mistake; it was designed with a purpose and a reason.

I've been serving the Lord in the Apostolic Church for over 30 years. I've been in more prayer lines than I can count. I've prayed for people, fasted for needs, and have pastored for 14 years. I've seen many claim a miracle, but have seen later that they either lied, were pressured to say they were healed, or that chance was simply in the equation. I've never seen blind eyes open or the cripple walk again.

I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but the whole miracle crusade thing, and celebrities like Benny Hen, have soured my stomach over trusting in things that never happen. It becomes a mental game, the mind playing tricks. Maybe I'm in sin? Maybe we are not praying hard enough? Let's try harder? Let's tarry? Keep believing!! Come on, Trust in the Lord! Don't stop! Don't give up! This has probably driven more people away from church than what it has drawn. False hopes get old. Empty dreams leave one weak.

We had a Missionary from the UPC stop by our church in the 80's. He told us numerous stories of things that God had done in Africa. He told us a young boy's legs grew back during the night, sending the whole village into Revival. I believed every word, and my Faith went through the roof. God could do anything!! Well, when I became a Pastor, I found out this guy was a fraud. He blatantly lied to Churches all over the Nation so he could get financial support.

We went to a Healing Crusade a few years back. What a circus. People were being called out of the crowd, "You've got a back problem!!” (Yeah, well who doesn't when you get old?) After an Earth Shattering Prayer and a bunch of screaming, the preacher stuffed a microphone in their face, "So, How do you FEEL???" All eyes upon them, what do you expect them to say, "Just terrible!"

Church has become a place of emotional letdown. We keep expecting to see something great or supernatural, but Life is just Life. We work, love, eat, rest, get old, and die. And as age comes upon us Baby Boomers, we aren't the dumb little, pot smoking, kids of the 60's anymore. We've seen life and tested her waters. We see what Religion has done to Planet Earth, and that we may have been manipulated when we were young and zealous.

I really have yet to meet someone who can tell me that beyond any shadow of doubt, God Healed them, and I find this strange after all these years. So, this if for all you out there who wonder why I feel the way I do, and why the Facts are more important to me than ever before.

Just being honest.................

Boy, NotForSale.... I wish you were for sale, and that someone had bought you and carried you off! TIC.

Some of your posting has left me scratching my head. But boy this post blows me out of the water! Why? Because I relate to too much of it. We've quoted about the "signs that follow the believers" and then pick and choose which ones it's okay not to have and which ones we must have to keep from going to hell! Hello!

God bless you! I'm gonna read this post again! No wonder some of the old timers forbade us to do any thinking!

How many folks could really live up to this scripture... "1Pe 3:15* But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

Been Thinkin

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

Boy, NotForSale.... I wish you were for sale, and that someone had bought you and carried you off! TIC.

Some of your posting has left me scratching my head. But boy this post blows me out of the water! Why? Because I relate to too much of it. We've quoted about the "signs that follow the believers" and then pick and choose which ones it's okay not to have and which ones we must have to keep from going to hell! Hello!

God bless you! I'm gonna read this post again! No wonder some of the old timers forbade us to do any thinking!

How many folks could really live up to this scripture... "1Pe 3:15* But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

Been Thinkin

Religion does a whole bunch of "Cherry Pickin". Then, you know how it goes, "We've got the BING, and you DON'T".

Been Thinkin, as you can tell, I've been doing alot of that. God Bless!!

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I really have yet to meet someone who can tell me that beyond any shadow of doubt, God Healed them, and I find this strange after all these years

I have. A few real, genuine, documented miracles. Not many, but a few.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I have. A few real, genuine, documented miracles. Not many, but a few.

And I would have to go with Timmy on this point and say this bothers me more than no one genuinely being healed. So would God just heal a few here and there and give us all false hope? I'm basically using his words, but I'll echo them because I relate.

I've heard a gazillion claims. But I've never seen a paralyzed person jump up and walk. I'd like to see that.

Since Notforsale opened the door (thanks for having the guts), I'll admit that I don't preach healing that much. Maybe ever? Honesty time. I've never witnessed a healing. I don't feel comfortable creating false hope. Sure, I've heard the "God healed my back" claims and things that could never be documented.

But I absolutely HAVE seen God's hand at work in my life and I could tell the stories that I've witnessed myself. I've had visions that came true to the most finite detail. I've had ridiculous financial provisions. But healing? No.

[Esther]

"I really have yet to meet someone who can tell me that beyond any shadow of doubt, God Healed them, and I find this strange after all these years. So, this if for all you out there who wonder why I feel the way I do, and why the Facts are more important to me than ever before."

I was healed in 1986 sitting in a wheelchair and I am still walking without a limp. The doctor said that IF I ever walked again it would be with a distinctive limp.

When I went to see him after God healed me he said, "By the book, your not suppose to be walking" then he said, "your body makes calcium really fast". lol

I said by the Book I go by I should be walking. I told him God healed me. He wasn't too much into that.

[Sam]

For several years I have been on a prayer team that visits folks and prays for them in homes, hospitals, and nursing homes. I don't know how many we've prayed for over the years. I've never once seen someone jump out of a hospital bed and run down the hall shouting, "I'm healed! I'm healed!" Some folks that we have prayed for have later died. Some got well in time and some got well sooner than expected. There have been a few that there was no real explanation other than that God did it. We thank God for whatever happens and for however God heals and we keep on plugging along visiting, reading Scriptures, encouraging, and praying. I wish we saw more results and more dramatic results but I have to believe that God is a Healer because that is how I understand the Bible.

By the way, the guy I go on these visits with is a Roman Catholic who has been baptized in the Spirit and we read from his Roman Catholic Bible with the imprimatur inside the front cover and with the Apocrypha included. Some times we even read Ecclesiasticus 38 when we visit folks. I'm 72 and Bob is 71 so we tell folks we are "elders" according to James 5 and that we are a prayer team made up of a Catholic and a Pentecostal. Bob goes to the Vineyard Church (and some times to a Catholic Church) and I go to a church that would be considered by folks here to be Trinity Pentecostal or Charismatic.

[Sam]

I received this Monday Sept. 19, 2005. It is a testimony by Barb Muenchen about her healing that happened 25 years before.

In 2004 when I found out I had prostate cancer I asked a lot of people to pray for me. One day Barb came up to me in the Vineyard Chapel and told me, "The name of Jesus is greater than any cancer." Then she told me about her bout with colon cancer in 1980 and how God had healed her. I had not heard that story before. She felt like she should tell me about it to encourage me and it was very encouraging. I have told that story to some people since then but I asked her if she would type it up for me and let me share it with others. She agreed and here it is. I hope it encourages you like it did me.

--------------------------
Hi Jim,

So many things have come up lately I'll just have to trust that now is a great time to pass this on. Thank you for asking...its always valuable to reflect on God's goodness!

Several years ago, I was diagnosed with colon cancer. As I was young, many months passed before the doctor realized the problem. By the time I entered the hospital, I required several blood transfusions to restore my system before surgery. During the procedure, a grapefruit size malignant tumor was removed from my colon. It had passed through the colon wall and spread to several lymph nodes... My prognosis was very poor. I remember meeting the oncologist and the grim look on his face. He had told my family I would not live to see Christmas (the surgery was in March). Nevertheless, preparation was made to begin extensive radiation treatments as soon as possible.

To be sure, I had had much prayer by my friends and family. My first time back to church my pastor prayed for me again. I felt a warmth go from the bottom of my large incision to the top. It circled the area where many of the malignant lymph nodes had been found (and the place I had been marked in red for the radiation). The heat traveled back down to the bottom of my incision. I knew something profound had occurred.

I began the treatments with the same "must do" attitude I'd had for the surgery. I was very weak, however, following such major surgery, and as the treatments began, my weakness increased. I was scheduled to go five times a week for six weeks. I questioned if I would make it.

One morning I was in the hospital waiting for another treatment. This thought came to me "Trust Me to complete your healing." I knew God was speaking and only He knew what my body could endure. At that moment, my family doctor entered the waiting room. I quietly told him I would be stopping my treatments. He insisted I make an appointment to discuss this with him. I made the appointment, as well as one with the surgeon and the oncologist. All three men objected. The oncologist was the most insistent. I told him he had no guarantees for me. He said, "Life has no guarantees." Trying to be both respectful and appreciative, I simply said I would put my life in God's Hands... These were his parting words: "If I see you in the mall in six months, I'll believe in your miracle." That was early April1980!

[Sam]

Like I said, we've seen lots of people die that we've prayed for. There are some that we just have to figure that God's hand performed the healing.

One man we prayed for was named Herb. He was diabetic and had a foot injury from a nail that would not heal. The doctors wanted to amputate his foot. We only prayed for him once. I had never seen him before our visit to the hospital. Afterward I thought of him and wondered what happened to him. When I'd think of him, I would pray for him. One day Bob, my prayer partner, called me and asked, "Want to see a miracle?" Of course I answered in the affirmative and agreed to meet him in a part of the city I was not familiar with. We went into a small print shop and there was Herb beaming. He was probably in his sixties. A young doctor in the hospital insisted that he have his foot removed. Herb stalled him off for a while and when the doctor examined the foot he marveled at the healing that had taken place. The open wound had closed. The doctor noted, "There even is some evidence of new bone growth." Herb pulled off his shoe and sock and showed us his foot. Like I said, Herb was an elderly man but his foot was smooth like that of a baby. It reminded me of 2 Kings 5:14.

We prayed several times for a 5 year old who had been dragged by a horse and had head injuries and a broken spine. This was in the summer. The people at Children's Hospital told the family that if all went well they hoped to have her home by Thanksgiving. We made several trips to pray for her and saw improvement. First we saw that she was awake and out of a coma. Then she recognized her family members. Then she could pull herself up to a sitting position in her crib. Then she began to talk. Then she began to walk with help at first. She went home in time to start kindergarten at the end of August.

Another little girl was in a coma at Children's Hospital. I did not pray for her but some others did. One morning very early, someone on the prayer team woke up and began to intercede for her. They went to the hospital later that morning and prayed. They went back two more days in succession. She came out of the coma and was released. The people at Children's Hospital said that they had never in their history seen a child survive who was in her condition.

This is not to discount doctors, medicine, and medical procedures. They all played a part in these stories. Some times when I visit a person in the hospital I tell the nurse that we are all on the same team --God's healing team-- and we play different roles. Some times nurses join in the prayer.