Timmy's Religion - Page 6

Sam · #51 04-20-2010, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadeye

I agree...Matt 25 is about works...the church is saved by grace.

But I do believe that at the White Throne judgment there will be those who are "saved" not part of the church or the Bride, but saved nonetheless...I will be honest and tell you i dont understand it all...but I cant see the church at that judgement.

I don't want to generate an argument but it has been standard teaching for years that there will be more people in Heaven than just Acts 2:38 folks.

Bishop G.T. Haywood had a booklet on the resurrection that taught this. It was also taught by S.G. Norris at the Apostolic Bible Institute so many ministers have heard that over the years. Bro. Clyde Haney taught a similar doctrine at WABC. A former pastor of mine, Frank Curts, was Dist. Supt. of Ohio and a Bible teacher and he taught that also.

Attached is a pdf file of Bishop Haywood's booklet.

notofworks · #52 04-20-2010, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

I agree.
It is my opinion that the Church is part of the first resurrection (Revelation 20:4-5) and that Matthew 25:31-46 is the second resurrection (Revelation 20:5, 11-15).

I still don't agree. Notice he said "applies." There is only one interpretation but many applications. To say that the concept of feeding, visiting, clothing, etc., doesn't "apply" to the church is something I'd greatly disagree with.

And can I just add....I'm not much of a believer in traditional eschatology. So many things that have been taught through eschatology history ends up being miscalculated and wrong. So I'm not convinced that Matthew 25 is directly talking about the "Second resurrection." There was a day when I thought I had Revelation figured out. Then I realized I didn't. So for the most part, I take a "wait and see" attitude with it. We know this...those that read the words of the book will be blessed!

Story time....This is from the book, "Love, Acceptance, and Forgiveness", I believe by Jerry Cook. It's been years since I read it. The author once pastored a traditional baptist (or maybe he knew a pastor who did). Anyway, the church was very quiet and traditional. The pastor was frustrated with many of his prophecy teachings and how liquid they often were because of changing times.

So rather than teaching the book of Revelation, he read it over a 2 or 3 week period. He honored the verse that said that whoever reads the words of this book will be blessed. So they read it. On the final week, when he reached the final verse, the very quiet, traditional Baptist church burst into a thunderous applause. It was a roar that last for several minutes.

So I read the book and don't try to always figure it out. I'm not convinced it CAN be understood in its entirety. I'll leave the eschatology to the prophecy students!

notofworks · #53 04-20-2010, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

Yes

Yes, but Deadeye believes that? I'm surprised. He seems to think that only people in his church are going to inherit much of anything!

Cindy · #54 04-20-2010, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy

deadeye · #55 04-20-2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

Yes, but Deadeye believes that? I'm surprised. He seems to think that only people in his church are going to inherit much of anything!

Actually you have no idea what i believe.

deadeye · #56 04-20-2010, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

I still don't agree. Notice he said "applies." There is only one interpretation but many applications. To say that the concept of feeding, visiting, clothing, etc., doesn't "apply" to the church is something I'd greatly disagree with.

I really do not think that our priority is a social gospel at all.
I believe that God is pleased when we help those who need it...but I believe He is displeased when we replace the Truth that saves their soul with works that feed their stomach.

notofworks · #57 04-20-2010, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadeye

Actually you have no idea what i believe.

I'm all ears!

notofworks · #58 04-20-2010, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadeye

I really do not think that our priority is a social gospel at all.
I believe that God is pleased when we help those who need it...but I believe He is displeased when we replace the Truth that saves their soul with works that feed their stomach.

The term "social gospel" is yours, certainly not scriptural. If you think it's just social fun to take care of those that are needy, that we are told scores of times in the bible to care for besides Matthew 25, then I wouldn't be interested in your version of the gospel.

Hoovie · #59 04-20-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

DM posted a series of questions for Timmy and then said, "I would like to ask these questions of KWS and not of works also."

I would like to volunteer my answers to the same questions.

Question 1: Do you believe in God?
Answer 1: Yes

Question 2: Do you believe the bible is the inspired, infallible word of God?
Answer 2: Yes

Question 3: Do you believe in the oneness of God?
Answer 3: This is not as easy to answer as the first two questions. The "oneness of God" means different things to different people on this forum. We don't even agree among ourselves what "oneness" is. I believe that God is an invisible Spirit who is everywhere at all times. I believe that God visited planet earth in the person of Jesus Christ to die for our sins. I believe that Jesus rose from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Father. I believe that Jesus lives in me as the Holy Spirit. I believe that God dwells in me; Jesus dwells in me; the Holy Spirit dwells in me; and the Spirit of the Lord dwells in me; and that He does that as a single Spirit being who has united Himself with my spirit.

Question 4: Do you believe acts 2:38 is the plan of salvation?
Answer 4: No. I believe Acts 2:38 speaks of three separate experiences: salvation/conversion; water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ; an empowering experience called the Holy Ghost Baptism or the Promise of the Father.

Question 5: Do you believe in speaking in tongues?
Answer 5: Yes

Question 6: Are you a one stepper or three stepper?
Answer 6: In the way I understand the use of the terms "one stepper" and "three stepper" as used on this forum, I would consider myself to be a one stepper.

P.S. I consider myself to be "Apostolic"

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

You didn't really ask me... and I know it's because you really don't care about my feelings and such; but anyhoo...

"Timmy has such a big influence on this forum, I was curious to know what Timmy actually believes.

Do you believe in God?

YES!

Do you believe the bible is the inspired, infallible word of God?

"Inspired?"

YES!

"Infallible?"

There are differing ways in which "infallibility" is expressed. There is, for example, the doctrine of Plenary Verbal Inspiration. This means literally: Full word-by-word inspiration. I don't hold to that.

Do you believe in the oneness of God?

YES! - - But again, there are differing views of "Oneness." My own is the "correct" view.

Do you believe acts 2:38 is the plan of salvation?

No. Acts 2:21 expresses the hope and instruction for individual salvation. Acts 2:38 encapsulates the rites of "initiation" into the new life and the empowerment available to sustain that life.

Do you believe in speaking in tongues?

I have never witnessed Acts 2:4-20 occurring at any time in my life nor have I ever experienced this, so "No" if "Acts 2:4" is what you're after. On the other hand, Paul mentions "unknown tongues" and "tongues of angels" in his letter to the Corinthians. I know of no way to substantiate just what that refers to - however I have had deep Spiritual encounters where I spoke "in an unknown tongue."

Are you a one stepper or three stepper?

Acts 2:21 again. One Stepper all the way. Jesus, and Jesus only saves us; and not we ourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any should boast.

I would like to ask these questions of KWS and not of works also.

Failure to respond to these questions means revoking my vote for Timmy as GS."

Sam and Pel's answers sound pretty much like I would answer. (though more eloquent)

However, I would say what may appear to be in error concerning scripture is either not attributable to the original writings, or faulty interpretation on our part.

notofworks · #60 04-20-2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Sam and Pel's answers sound pretty much like I would answer. (though more eloquent)

However, I would say what may appear to be in error concerning scripture is either not attributable to the original writings, or faulty interpretation on our part.

Despite what I say about the authenticity of scripture, I honestly get a little nervous when people start saying, "Well, that verse doesn't count." There are a lot of things in the Old Testament that trouble me, and even a few in the New Testament. But I LOVE the writings of Paul. James too. I love the three John books.