Nathan Morton Announces he's Leaving UPC

[Apocrypha]

Originally Posted by Neck

Isn't it true that most affiliated churches are affiliated because they took Home Missions money to help start, build and expand the church.

If that were not the case in the starting of this or any church the UPC would have no legal standing to force the church against the will of the church board. All Nathan Morton would need to do is turn in his card with the UPC and pastor the church.

Yes. Many churches that took some money became the chew toy of many a district superintendent who had a nephew who was coming off the evangelism trail.

One of my uncles sacrificed for years in poverty to start a church in Minnesota. The DS relative moved into town to help him out. As soon as the building was built my uncle was voted out by a large family block and not a word could be said. My uncle is still UPCI and started another church elsewhere in MN.. but its still kinda evil.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Neck

Isn't it true that most affiliated churches are affiliated because they took Home Missions money to help start, build and expand the church.

If that were not the case in the starting of this or any church the UPC would have no legal standing to force the church against the will of the church board. All Nathan Morton would need to do is turn in his card with the UPC and pastor the church.

Nakedstat,

Yup you are correct. To receive Home Missions money you have to have the church affiliated. I know an exUPC pastor whose UPC Home Missions church on the East Coast had a dickens of a time when they wanted to leave the Mothership. He told me he had to pay the UPC money (I assume what they had put in the work) to be able to disaffiliate.

[NorCal]

1. I personally know Pastor Morton, and he is an Honorable man. He has not once, that I can recall, ever slandered, accused, pointed fingers, etc, and any other preacher/pastor that has Stayed in the UPC.

2. Who cares if he has left the UPCI organization? Do you think that the UPCI is the ONLY church that will be the "End Time Church". Even in the Apostolic Times, you had those the Cried "I follow Paul" or "I Follow Peter" when they should be crying "I Follow Christ".

The way I was taught was to follow the order of convictions.

A. Biblical Word of God - The Apostolic Plan of Salvation, Holiness Living, and Oneness Theology. This is your foundation, the Chief Cornerstone being Jesus Christ.
B. Your Pastors Preaching, Teaching, and Instructions.
C. Your own personal convictions placed on you by the Holy Ghost.

Biblical ones CAN NOT and WILL NOT Change. However, God has given each church a Pastor (sheapard) to lead and guide them into truth. So remember, that a pastor has their own personal convictions for their chuch, and have spirits that his church/city may be fighting and need further fencing to protect his flock. He has the biblical right to implement Standards and Barriers that are above and beyond what the bible specifically states.

Next you follow your own convections that the Holy Ghost has placed upon you. These are for YOUR OWN SALVATION! This is where "work out your own salvation" comes in. This should and does not lower the standards below what your Pastor preaches or teaches, but can expand upon and go beyond it. As an example, you may not eat at a restaurant that has a bar as the main focus (Apple Bees, TGIF, etc) but others of your same congregations might (even your pastor) not have an issue eating there. This is a personal conviction that might be given to you by the Holy Ghost. Who knows, the devil may in the future, tempt you in those locations, and GOD is building a hedge around you.

I believe this is where some Apostolic/Pentecostal/Oneness people (along with other holiness movements) have failed to understand. Follow the teachings of your own pastor, and the convictions that the Holy Ghost has placed upon you and this will work out for the betterment of your walk with God.

If I recall correctly, back in the 1930's when Radio was first becoming popular, it was highly taught against in most Apostolic Churches. However later the started using it to Broadcast "Harvesttime Radio" (UPCI) and the thoughts about radio altered over the course of 30+ years, to where now it is not even brought up or even remembered by most. Along the way you had those who thought that the fellow pastors were back sliding, and left the organization. Why, because it was one pastors "personal conviction" over something that is not stated in specifically in the bible, but the pastor was fighting a spirit in own his church/city.

I would like to add that Speaking ill of Gods anointed, wither they be UPC, ALJC, WPF, COOLJC etc. is un-biblical and you are endangering yourself to a spirit of rebellion. Remember Cora. If they are not following Gods will, then GOD will rebuke them. But "touch not my anointed".

If/When I were to attend a WPF church, I will follow the teachings and leadership of the Pastor. Until then, it is not my place to concern myself with church "politics" and neither should it be yours either.

Let us remember that the ONLY way to Salvation is through Faith in Jesus Christ. Let us follow our Pastor as he follows Christ.

[Socialite]

Talk about a delayed response!

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by NorCal

1. I personally know Pastor Morton, and he is an Honorable man. He has not once, that I can recall, ever slandered, accused, pointed fingers, etc, and any other preacher/pastor that has Stayed in the UPC.

2. Who cares if he has left the UPCI organization? Do you think that the UPCI is the ONLY church that will be the "End Time Church". Even in the Apostolic Times, you had those the Cried "I follow Paul" or "I Follow Peter" when they should be crying "I Follow Christ".

The way I was taught was to follow the order of convictions.

A. Biblical Word of God - The Apostolic Plan of Salvation, Holiness Living, and Oneness Theology. This is your foundation, the Chief Cornerstone being Jesus Christ.
B. Your Pastors Preaching, Teaching, and Instructions.
C. Your own personal convictions placed on you by the Holy Ghost.

Biblical ones CAN NOT and WILL NOT Change. However, God has given each church a Pastor (sheapard) to lead and guide them into truth. So remember, that a pastor has their own personal convictions for their chuch, and have spirits that his church/city may be fighting and need further fencing to protect his flock. He has the biblical right to implement Standards and Barriers that are above and beyond what the bible specifically states.

Next you follow your own convections that the Holy Ghost has placed upon you. These are for YOUR OWN SALVATION! This is where "work out your own salvation" comes in. This should and does not lower the standards below what your Pastor preaches or teaches, but can expand upon and go beyond it. As an example, you may not eat at a restaurant that has a bar as the main focus (Apple Bees, TGIF, etc) but others of your same congregations might (even your pastor) not have an issue eating there. This is a personal conviction that might be given to you by the Holy Ghost. Who knows, the devil may in the future, tempt you in those locations, and GOD is building a hedge around you.

I believe this is where some Apostolic/Pentecostal/Oneness people (along with other holiness movements) have failed to understand. Follow the teachings of your own pastor, and the convictions that the Holy Ghost has placed upon you and this will work out for the betterment of your walk with God.

If I recall correctly, back in the 1930's when Radio was first becoming popular, it was highly taught against in most Apostolic Churches. However later the started using it to Broadcast "Harvesttime Radio" (UPCI) and the thoughts about radio altered over the course of 30+ years, to where now it is not even brought up or even remembered by most. Along the way you had those who thought that the fellow pastors were back sliding, and left the organization. Why, because it was one pastors "personal conviction" over something that is not stated in specifically in the bible, but the pastor was fighting a spirit in own his church/city.

I would like to add that Speaking ill of Gods anointed, wither they be UPC, ALJC, WPF, COOLJC etc. is un-biblical and you are endangering yourself to a spirit of rebellion. Remember Cora. If they are not following Gods will, then GOD will rebuke them. But "touch not my anointed".

If/When I were to attend a WPF church, I will follow the teachings and leadership of the Pastor. Until then, it is not my place to concern myself with church "politics" and neither should it be yours either.

Let us remember that the ONLY way to Salvation is through Faith in Jesus Christ. Let us follow our Pastor as he follows Christ.

Seen this goofy line of reasoning a time or two. What kind of nut thinks his pastor's teaching is on par with the Bible?

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Seen this goofy line of reasoning a time or two. What kind of nut thinks his pastor's teaching is on par with the Bible?

I think his point was, follow the pastor as the pastor follows Christ.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Seen this goofy line of reasoning a time or two. What kind of nut thinks his pastor's teaching is on par with the Bible?

Isn't it RCC dogma that when the pope speaks ex cathedra he is granted infallibility and his words are on par with scripture? Also that the findings of the councils are are as binding as scripture?

Papal infallibility is the dogma in Roman Catholic theology that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error when he solemnly declares or promulgates to the universal Church a dogmatic teaching on faith or morals as being contained in divine revelation, or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation. It is also taught that the Holy Spirit works in the body of the Church, as sensus fidelium, to ensure that dogmatic teachings proclaimed to be infallible will be received by all Catholics. This dogma, however, does not state either that the Pope cannot sin in his own personal life or that he is necessarily free of error, even when speaking in his official capacity, outside the specific contexts in which the dogma applies.

This same idea is some times applied to a pastor in some of the Apostolic/Pentecostal groups.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Cindy

I think his point was, follow the pastor as the pastor follows Christ.

No, it is just plain nutty. Pastor can impose whatever he wants on the church, to fence it in. You can't tell the pastor he is wrong because that is toughing God's anointed. blah blah blah

Like every other cult in the world, don't question the leader.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Sam

Isn't it RCC dogma that when the pope speaks ex cathedra he is granted infallibility and his words are on par with scripture? Also that the findings of the councils are are as binding as scripture?

Papal infallibility is the dogma in Roman Catholic theology that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error when he solemnly declares or promulgates to the universal Church a dogmatic teaching on faith or morals as being contained in divine revelation, or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation. It is also taught that the Holy Spirit works in the body of the Church, as sensus fidelium, to ensure that dogmatic teachings proclaimed to be infallible will be received by all Catholics. This dogma, however, does not state either that the Pope cannot sin in his own personal life or that he is necessarily free of error, even when speaking in his official capacity, outside the specific contexts in which the dogma applies.

This same idea is some times applied to a pastor in some of the Apostolic/Pentecostal groups.

And isn't it funny that they hate the Catholic church so much?

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

No, it is just plain nutty. Pastor can impose whatever he wants on the church, to fence it in. You can't tell the pastor he is wrong because that is toughing God's anointed. blah blah blah

Like every other cult in the world, don't question the leader.

I took it to mean, follow the pastor's biblical teachings. You took it another way.