For those that left the UPC...

Jack Shephard · #1 05-19-2010, 10:12 PM

This is no easy choice. My guess is that the husband has been asking himself questions for years but the answer he is giving himself is either, "it is a God-given conviction" or "it is all I have ever known and it is something I am convienced of" Neither are correct necassarily. It can be a conviction but the key is make sure it is a God-thing and not the man-thing. I am of the belief that often times the "god" we hear is actually the preachers voice ringing in our head. It is so very easy to confuse a voice that you have possibly NEVER heard and the one you often hear because after all the minister/pastor is the voice of God in the assembly. Not TIC.

I have been there before. I left and my wife stayed because of her family and frankly she thought I was losing it I am sure. After about 1 year away I returned so I could save my family. My wife and I still attend a UPC church. Our UPC church has changed a bit. It is much more comfortable now. My wife has balanced out and see things similar to how I see them because she sought them out for herself in the bible and found there is no basis for some of those things. Mirth1981 I urge you to consider this. What is your faith's foundation? Is the foundation the standards, don'ts, can'ts, and all the similar things or is the foundation actually Jesus and His message? The reason I ask you is because once some of the "extras" are cutaway (no pun intended) is your foundation safe? Mine was set on the "extras" and I am still feeling the ramifications from it. I know that I heard from God and God alone on how I am to live, but if you build a foundation with faulty supplies it will NOT stand and the house will ultimately crash down. This is why when some home owners do additions the whole of the original home doesn't continue with integrity because the foundation is insufficent. But if the foundation is completely solid and upon HIM once you cutaway the "extras" then your houses strenght and fortification will not have suffered.

Mirth1981 · #2 05-20-2010, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

This is no easy choice. My guess is that the husband has been asking himself questions for years but the answer he is giving himself is either, "it is a God-given conviction" or "it is all I have ever known and it is something I am convienced of"

Yep! You guessed right. He shuts me down when I bring up the topic lately. I think he is going to refuse to take a stand, but I'm praying that he will study for himself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Mirth1981 I urge you to consider this. What is your faith's foundation? Is the foundation the standards, don'ts, can'ts, and all the similar things or is the foundation actually Jesus and His message? The reason I ask you is because once some of the "extras" are cutaway (no pun intended) is your foundation safe? Mine was set on the "extras" and I am still feeling the ramifications from it. I know that I heard from God and God alone on how I am to live, but if you build a foundation with faulty supplies it will NOT stand and the house will ultimately crash down. This is why when some home owners do additions the whole of the original home doesn't continue with integrity because the foundation is insufficent. But if the foundation is completely solid and upon HIM once you cutaway the "extras" then your houses strenght and fortification will not have suffered.

By "extras" do you mean "standards"? I do feel like I have a strong relationship with God, although I want it to be stronger. I think that has been pushing me to study these things out for myself lately. I've actually been feeling even closer to the Lord lately since I've been studying more, and really wanting to PLEASE Him (and not just the pastor or people in the church). I've been so thankful for his mercy lately...more so than I ever have before. It's less about me and more about HIM. I'm realizing how much God loves me...and that I don't have to do ANYTHING to EARN His love.

Just a question: Do you have a hard time attending the UPC church when they preach things over the pulpit that you don't agree with? I went to church tonight and a few times "standards" were slipped in, and it bothered me. I want to attend a church that believes in the Holy Ghost and baptism in Jesus Name, but I don't think any other church in our area does besides the UPC church. So at this point in time, my options are few...but I don't know if I can continue where I'm at either.

Jack Shephard · #3 05-20-2010, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

Yep! You guessed right. He shuts me down when I bring up the topic lately. I think he is going to refuse to take a stand, but I'm praying that he will study for himself.

By "extras" do you mean "standards"? I do feel like I have a strong relationship with God, although I want it to be stronger. I think that has been pushing me to study these things out for myself lately. I've actually been feeling even closer to the Lord lately since I've been studying more, and really wanting to PLEASE Him (and not just the pastor or people in the church). I've been so thankful for his mercy lately...more so than I ever have before. It's less about me and more about HIM. I'm realizing how much God loves me...and that I don't have to do ANYTHING to EARN His love.

Just a question: Do you have a hard time attending the UPC church when they preach things over the pulpit that you don't agree with? I went to church tonight and a few times "standards" were slipped in, and it bothered me. I want to attend a church that believes in the Holy Ghost and baptism in Jesus Name, but I don't think any other church in our area does besides the UPC church. So at this point in time, my options are few...but I don't know if I can continue where I'm at either.

Well to answer your question is tough at times. Now having said that I have a really good church. They are much more liberal or middle of the road than most UPC churches. The times that standards are ever mentioned, which is extremely rare, is when they are talking about how they are more of a good practice than anything. They are not taught as heaven or hell basically. My pastor told me he sees nothing wrong with a man wearing shorts to his knees because women wear skirts to there knees. He has also said that he has no bible for women wearing slacks that have been tailored to their body type. Like instead of a women wear a mans pair of slacks if they wore a pair that is strickly ladies pants he can't say that is wrong. Now there are very few if any that wear slacks. The typical standards are mainly followed by those in leadership.

I was talking about standards when I was using "extras". The thing about going to a oneness church that is not hardcore standards or hell type of deal. If the only oneness church around is yours then you have a tough choice. I would never lead anyone away from a oneness church or any church for that matter. You might want to do some serious research on other types of churches in your area. Some AOG churchs baptize in Jesus name too. Consider following the cloud of the spirit and not just sticking to a banner like oneness. If you are at the place where you are questioning the standards then one thing that I recommend is to really search the other things that you believe like the salvation plan. I would do this to make sure that your foundation is correct according to scripture. If you do this now it might save you some heart and headaches later. Plus this way you know that you know that you know. Know what I mean?

Mirth1981 · #4 05-20-2010, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

If you are at the place where you are questioning the standards then one thing that I recommend is to really search the other things that you believe like the salvation plan. I would do this to make sure that your foundation is correct according to scripture. If you do this now it might save you some heart and headaches later. Plus this way you know that you know that you know. Know what I mean?

Yes, I totally know what you mean. I have been studying everything, especially the plan of salvation, which is way more important than any "holiness standards".

I still feel very strongly about water baptism in Jesus name and Holy Ghost baptism with the evidence of tongues. These are things that I have experienced myself and know to be genuine (unlike standards...I have always just felt to "submit" myself and blindly follow those, in spite of my doubts). There are many scriptures to support water and spirit baptism.

Pressing-On · #5 05-20-2010, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

Yep! You guessed right. He shuts me down when I bring up the topic lately. I think he is going to refuse to take a stand, but I'm praying that he will study for himself.
.

I have a friend going through this. But, it's the opposite. She wants to stay in and he wants to leave. She e-mailed me this morning to ask me to pray. He's given her an ultimatum - if she doesn't leave, he will divorce her. Empty threat, he's not going to do that, but it's not a good situation.

Praying for you and your family.