Are Trinitarians Saved?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Could you explain the orthodox view of the Trinity?

Good to see you my Brother.

Hi! I'd like to start out by saying that it's very good to see you too EB.

My understanding of the Trinity is that according to Trinitarian doctrine GOD is a transcendent and unknowable single essence (being). Within this single essence are three eternal hypostasis (persons or personas) expressing the unknowable aspects of this essence. This essence is primarily revealed through the first person, God the Father. However, immanating from God the Father is the Logos, or God the Son. Immanating from both God the Father and God the Son is God the Holy Spirit. Essentially the Father is transcendent and invisible, seen only through theophanies and his self expression, the Logos. The Logos is the immanating self expression of God the Father in time and space. God the Father continues to be transcendent while the Logos reveals his mind and will within creation. Throughout the OT the Logos appeared as the Angel of the LORD. The Logos was made flesh in the NT and so was begotten by Mary (however being the Father's Logos he was eternally begotten before time began). Having surrendered all divine perogative the Logos became flesh and blood, the man Jesus Christ, God the Son. On the spiritual plane God operates as God the Holy Spirit through the power and the name of God the Son, which is Jesus (hense immanating from both God the Father and God the Son). Each "person" (hypostasis or persona) found in the single divine essence is complete thus separate in personhood, yet unified in essence (ousia). The three are one.

That's my understanding of the Trinity. God bless.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Hi! I'd like to start out by saying that it's very good to see you too EB.

It is also great to see you and I pray that everything is going very well for you. Lord bless you in a great and mighty way, my Brother.

Originally Posted by Aquila

My understanding of the Trinity is that according to Trinitarian doctrine GOD is a transcendent and unknowable single essence (being). Within this single essence are three eternal hypostasis (persons or personas) expressing the unknowable aspects of this essence. This essence is primarily revealed through the first person, God the Father. However, immanating from God the Father is the Logos, or God the Son. Immanating from both God the Father and God the Son is God the Holy Spirit. Essentially the Father is transcendent and invisible, seen only through theophanies and his self expression, the Logos. The Logos is the immanating self expression of God the Father in time and space. God the Father continues to be transcendent while the Logos reveals his mind and will within creation. Throughout the OT the Logos appeared as the Angel of the LORD. The Logos was made flesh in the NT and so was begotten by Mary (however being the Father's Logos he was eternally begotten before time began). Having surrendered all divine perogative the Logos became flesh and blood, the man Jesus Christ, God the Son. On the spiritual plane God operates as God the Holy Spirit through the power and the name of God the Son, which is Jesus (hense immanating from both God the Father and God the Son). Each "person" (hypostasis or persona) found in the single divine essence is complete thus separate in personhood, yet unified in essence (ousia). The three are one.

That's my understanding of the Trinity. God bless.

Thank you my friend.

What do you think about the Trinitarian understanding that instead of persona, or three personalities, there are three separate beings, totally separate from each other?

While they share of the essence of GOD, they don't share the abilities of one another. They all act in a unified effort, but are never one literally. They are all called GOD, yet they are not all called SON, FATHER, or HOLY GHOST. Three totally separate beings, individuals, yet all acting as a unified one.

Yet, isn't this four beings if we count the essence of GOD? In the Trinitarian triangle we have GOD in the middle and arms that connect to the father, son, and spirit. Then, on the outside of the triangle it says the father is not the son, and the son is not the father, and the father is not the spirit. Yet all together doesn't that make up four instead of three?

Where is this teaching found in the Torah, or the prophets?

Again thank you for your explanation.

Lord bless you

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

It is also great to see you and I pray that everything is going very well for you. Lord bless you in a great and mighty way, my Brother.



Thank you my friend.

What do you think about the Trinitarian understanding that instead of persona, or three personalities, there are three separate beings, totally separate from each other?

While they share of the essence of GOD, they don't share the abilities of one another. They all act in a unified effort, but are never one literally. They are all called GOD, yet they are not all called SON, FATHER, or HOLY GHOST. Three totally separate beings, individuals, yet all acting as a unified one.

Yet, isn't this four beings if we count the essence of GOD? In the Trinitarian triangle we have GOD in the middle and arms that connect to the father, son, and spirit. Then, on the outside of the triangle it says the father is not the son, and the son is not the father, and the father is not the spirit. Yet all together doesn't that make up four instead of three?

Where is this teaching found in the Torah, or the prophets?

Again thank you for your explanation.

Lord bless you

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

I think Trinitarians simply see God through the stained glass window of church tradition. Most Trinitarians who simply read the Bible describe God in ways that don't do violence to Oneness doctrine, even if they don't see the more subtle nuances of our teaching. I don't rule out a person's salvation just because they are Trinitarian. Nor do I assume one is saved merely because they are Oneness Apostolic.

Both schools of doctrine have their strengths and weakenesses. I don't think either one is 100%, though I do think Oneness comes the closest to what the Apostles must have believed. I think that if the Apostles read some of our Oneness books they'd agree with a lot of it... and then correct us on a few of the finer points.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think Trinitarians simply see God through the stained glass window of church tradition. Most Trinitarians who simply read the Bible describe God in ways that don't do violence to Oneness doctrine, even if they don't see the more subtle nuances of our teaching. I don't rule out a person's salvation just because they are Trinitarian. Nor do I assume one is saved merely because they are Oneness Apostolic.

Both schools of doctrine have their strengths and weakenesses. I don't think either one is 100%, though I do think Oneness comes the closest to what the Apostles must have believed. I think that if the Apostles read some of our Oneness books they'd agree with a lot of it... and then correct us on a few of the finer points.

Thank you my friend.

Do you believe that we living today can come to the same understanding that the apostles had on the godhead?

Or is the Bible just another ancient document written to an ancient culture who is long gone? Therefore we have no clear idea of what they meant in their writings or what they believed? Also, if we are wrong about one portion, couldn't we be as equally as wrong about others? Doesn't that lead us down the wrong roads that end up in the wrong places?

What about the Spirit of Truth leading us into all Truth? Do you believe that can be possible?

Lord bless you in a great way

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com