LOST???????????????????

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I never said they were brethren!!!! EVER!

That doesn't mean they aren't! I'm not so sure I would be considered your brother, but that doesn't mean I'm not.

[SDG]

TB ... tu eres mi hermano ...

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Can you answer the last question I asked Dan? When is righteousness credited to the believer, at initial faith or at the judgement seat of Christ? The three verses from Romans I quoted seem to imply a future reckoning of righteousness....and Paul is telling this to saints...

Mizpeh, with regard to your question as to when we are credited or deemed righteous…we are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are…we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins…People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood… God declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus. Romans 3 emphasizes this truth.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Mizpeh, with regard to your question as to when we are credited or deemed righteous…we are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are…we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins…People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood… God declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus. Romans 3 emphasizes this truth.

Here is something to think about....when are we accounted righteous? at the moment of initial faith or after living a life of faith and being brought before the throne of Christ? (Remember Romans is written to saints not sinners.)

4:24 but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, NASB

5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, NASB

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: KJV

5:19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. NASB

JRoc,

I don't have anything set in stone in my mind right now as to when I believe we are accounted righteous. I'm going to keep studying.

Thank you for your answer.

How do you fit these scriptures above which seem to imply that the crediting of righteousness is a future happening for Christians with your answer that we are credited righteousness when we believe? Can we be credited with righteousness twice?

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

TB ... tu eres mi hermano ...

now you know that is a violation of the rules here at AFF

pero el Pastor es mi hermano, tambien!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by philjones

now you know that is a violation of the rules here at AFF

pero el Pastor es mi hermano, tambien!

tu eres mi hermano tambien ... Felipe.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

JRoc,

I don't have anything set in stone in my mind right now as to when I believe we are accounted righteous. I'm going to keep studying.

Thank you for your answer.

How do you fit these scriptures above which seem to imply that the crediting of righteousness is a future happening for Christians with your answer that we are credited righteousness when we believe? Can we be credited with righteousness twice?

You seem to insist this is in the future tense ... have you examined the Greek ... I think it will help ... credited is in the past/present tense ... in Genesis 15 ... when Abraham's faith is credited ...it's also past tense .... last time I checked justified is in the past tense too.

And furthermore ... you do insist .. he's talking to saints ... would not this justification be in the past/present .... whether it's a PCI or PAJC view one holds

[SDG]

5:1 is clearly in the past tense ...
5:19 speaks of Adam's disobedience and how the obedience of Jesus unto the cross, the One, makes us righteous ... I don't see any future tense ...

[SDG]

Romans 4

20 yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving R191 glory to God, 21 and being R192 fully assured that what R193 God had promised, He was able also to perform. 22 Therefore IT R194 WAS ALSO CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 23 Now not R195 for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, 24 but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who R196 believe in Him who raised R197 Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 He who was delivered R198 over because of our transgressions, and was raised R199 because of our justification.

Paul is speaking to a group ... by you own admission of saved saints ... he's not teaching a bible study to the lost ... he's showing the parallel of saving faith ... between Abraham and us .... this whole passage in context is in the past and present ...

[freeatlast]

The Epistles were explained to me as teaching us how to stay saved.

The Epistles are much more exciting to me today, as I understand them to be reminding the siants how they got saved.