Is There A Difference?

[mfblume]

I believe and teach that Paul's words in Ephesians that speak of the spirit of wisdom and revelation is not speaking about the Holy Ghost, but rather our human spirits rendered sensitive so we can discern truths.

I see no difference in the sealing of the Holy Ghost and the baptism for power, personally. It's all one and the same experience, and speaking in tongues indicates when that experience began.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I believe and teach that Paul's words in Ephesians that speak of the spirit of wisdom and revelation is not speaking about the Holy Ghost, but rather our human spirits rendered sensitive so we can discern truths.

That would be the most reasonable explanation as the Book of Ephesians opens with the words, "...to the saints which are at Ephesus...". He is addressing the church, which was already spirit filled.

Clearly, the writer in Ephesians wants us to draw closer to God. We know that it is possible to become more sensitive and knowledgeable in the Spirit when we do so. I believe that is why it can be written in 1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." and why I Cor 14:1 encourages us to "desire" spiritual gifts."

All of these things are conditional toward our desire to pursue and draw closer to God.

I see no difference in the sealing of the Holy Ghost and the baptism for power, personally. It's all one and the same experience, and speaking in tongues indicates when that experience began.

I have never seen the scripture support any view other than the Holy Ghost providing both sealing, power and the evidence - the selfsame Spirit.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

That would be the most reasonable explanation as the Book of Ephesians opens with the words, "...to the saints which are at Ephesus...". He is addressing the church, which was already spirit filled.

Clearly, the writer in Ephesians wants us to draw closer to God. We know that it is possible to become more sensitive and knowledgeable in the Spirit when we do so. I believe that is why it can be written in 1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." and why I Cor 14:1 encourages us to "desire" spiritual gifts."

All of these things are conditional toward our desire to pursue and draw closer to God.


I have never seen the scripture support any view other than the Holy Ghost providing both sealing, power and the evidence - the selfsame Spirit.

Amen! Good Post!

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

That would be the most reasonable explanation as the Book of Ephesians opens with the words, "...to the saints which are at Ephesus...". He is addressing the church, which was already spirit filled.

Clearly, the writer in Ephesians wants us to draw closer to God. We know that it is possible to become more sensitive and knowledgeable in the Spirit when we do so. I believe that is why it can be written in 1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." and why I Cor 14:1 encourages us to "desire" spiritual gifts."

All of these things are conditional toward our desire to pursue and draw closer to God.


I have never seen the scripture support any view other than the Holy Ghost providing both sealing, power and the evidence - the selfsame Spirit.

Well, that's because you believe Spirit Baptism (with tongues) is limited to one experience, multi-functional. Others believe in a multi-experiential spirit that is multi-functional. In other words, what the Spirit does in Acts, is not what the Spirit does in John 3 or what the Spirit will do at the Resurrection of the dead. Same Spirit, different function for the believer.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Well, that's because you believe Spirit Baptism (with tongues) is limited to one experience, multi-functional. Others believe in a multi-experiential spirit that is multi-functional. In other words, what the Spirit does in Acts, is not what the Spirit does in John 3 or what the Spirit will do at the Resurrection of the dead. Same Spirit, different function for the believer.

I do!!! I feel like Peter or sumthin'!!!

Don't have time for further response right now, but thanks for addressing the post. I'll try to remember to reply later, Jeffrey.

Oh, I just realized all I need to say is "I don't agree with what you are saying."

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I believe and teach that Paul's words in Ephesians that speak of the spirit of wisdom and revelation is not speaking about the Holy Ghost, but rather our human spirits rendered sensitive so we can discern truths.

I see no difference in the sealing of the Holy Ghost and the baptism for power, personally. It's all one and the same experience, and speaking in tongues indicates when that experience began.

That's what I believe too, Bro. Blume. It began for me the summer of 1958, 52 yrs. ago. It's more real today than when I first begun!

Growing up Dad would teach the little ones to:

Read your Bible, pray every day, pray every day,
pray every day. Read your Bible, pray every day,
and you'll grow, grow, grow.

In a Bible study as a young wife and mother, Dad would say, "If we don't pray and read God's Word, we can't live for God. Knowing how much I needed HIM, I remember struggling with being a wife, mother, etc., etc., and finding time to pray and read my Bible daily. I would remember Dad's words, If you don't pray and read God's Word, you can't live for God". I would find renewed strength to MAKE time.

Today the Word is the most interesting book I read. I never liked novels. Don't give me fiction, give me something that is TRUE! I don't have time even today for things that are just a fiction story. Give me TRUTH. The KNOWLEDGE of THE TRUTH is what will set us free! HE/SHE whom the Son sets free is free INDEED!

Falla39

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I believe and teach that Paul's words in Ephesians that speak of the spirit of wisdom and revelation is not speaking about the Holy Ghost, but rather our human spirits rendered sensitive so we can discern truths.

I see no difference in the sealing of the Holy Ghost and the baptism for power, personally. It's all one and the same experience, and speaking in tongues indicates when that experience began.

Eph Chapter 1 is about the "spirit of wisdom"

14who is(AI) the guarantee[d] of our(AJ) inheritance until(AK) we acquire(AL) possession of it,[e](AM) to the praise of his glory.

And PO before we lazily go into the whole "Paul was talking to saints-only" merrygoround, did you only hear the Gospel when you were an unbeliever. Did you not year-after-year discover more fully what it is you have received? Who you were? This whole argument about it not being to unbelievers (duh) is obtuse and largely ignoring the concept that Paul omits any exhaustive handling with theology. Not the Paul we know.

Something as central as the Holy Spirit isn't going to be missed by a "you should know everything when you believe" syndrome. Nice try.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I believe and teach that Paul's words in Ephesians that speak of the spirit of wisdom and revelation is not speaking about the Holy Ghost, but rather our human spirits rendered sensitive so we can discern truths.

I see no difference in the sealing of the Holy Ghost and the baptism for power, personally. It's all one and the same experience, and speaking in tongues indicates when that experience began.

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Eph Chapter 1 is about the "spirit of wisdom"

14who is(AI) the guarantee[d] of our(AJ) inheritance until(AK) we acquire(AL) possession of it,[e](AM) to the praise of his glory.

And PO before we lazily go into the whole "Paul was talking to saints-only" merrygoround, did you only hear the Gospel when you were an unbeliever. Did you not year-after-year discover more fully what it is you have received? Who you were? This whole argument about it not being to unbelievers (duh) is obtuse and largely ignoring the concept that Paul omits any exhaustive handling with theology. Not the Paul we know.

Something as central as the Holy Spirit isn't going to be missed by a "you should know everything when you believe" syndrome. Nice try.

I'm going to let MB address you here since you are referencing his post.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Eph Chapter 1 is about the "spirit of wisdom"

14who is(AI) the guarantee[d] of our(AJ) inheritance until(AK) we acquire(AL) possession of it,[e](AM) to the praise of his glory.

And PO before we lazily go into the whole "Paul was talking to saints-only" merrygoround, did you only hear the Gospel when you were an unbeliever. Did you not year-after-year discover more fully what it is you have received? Who you were? This whole argument about it not being to unbelievers (duh) is obtuse and largely ignoring the concept that Paul omits any exhaustive handling with theology. Not the Paul we know.

Something as central as the Holy Spirit isn't going to be missed by a "you should know everything when you believe" syndrome. Nice try.

I am not sure why you are addressing P.O. here, but unless I am missing something, I never said anything about knowing everything as soon as we believe.

We all know saints sometimes were taken over salvation experience in order to inform them of the potential they have been given in God's Spirit already received, such as this instance. It has nothing to do with knowing everything we should know when we first believe. That is as far from my concept as can be. In fact, my whole emphasis in ministry has been spiritual maturity, and how so many neglect it and remain infantile.

Eph 1 speaks of the earnest of our inheritance showing we do indeed have so much more to experience later, and not all at initial salvation.

We are to grow in understanding by the Spirit of God working in our human spirits to grant us eyes of understanding and revelation. We have human spirits, too. We discern and understand with our human spirits, for the carnal and natural mind cannot relate to the things of God at all. A spiritual mind (soul) is simply a mind that can cooperate with the Spirit of God within one's own spirit, and "translate" what God id relating in our human spirits.

Where on earth did you get the impression I was proposing we should know everything when we believe from the quote you made from me? What am I missing here?