2 major Calif. churches going Back to Sunday Nights

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Thad

2 Large churches in CA. that had Dropped Their Sunday night services are going back to it. One Already has (the largest church in the west).

I guess the idea of share groups on sunday nights didn't work out ???

I wonder how hard it;s going to be to get the people back into the habit of coming on Sunday nights after having their sunday evenings off to do whatever.


maybe this is a good sign. i think this is a little encourging

Not sure the reasoning for these fellowships, but might I share a observation.

The problem with keeping people on fire and spiritual is not having more services.

The root of the problem is the lack of discipleship and the fact that many who belong to the church in the west are basically spiritual consumers.

This cycle of meetings that keep people passive (yes I know in our churches people get with it) but passive in the sense they do not exercise their gifts, don't get to stretch their spiritual muscles are dependent upon the service run by professionals to meet their needs.

Basically give them a fish, instead we need to teach them how to fish and start exercising their spiritual muscles.

[Thad]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Not sure the reasoning for these fellowships, but might I share a observation.

The problem with keeping people on fire and spiritual is not having more services.

The root of the problem is the lack of discipleship and the fact that many who belong to the church in the west are basically spiritual consumers.

This cycle of meetings that keep people passive (yes I know in our churches people get with it) but passive in the sense they do not exercise their gifts, don't get to stretch their spiritual muscles are dependent upon the service run by professionals to meet their needs.

Basically give them a fish, instead we need to teach them how to fish and start exercising their spiritual muscles.

Keith it sounds good on paper but in reality on 4% of the population are leaders. that means 96% are followers. as you know Jesus feed the multitudes but how many became true disciples ??

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Thad

Keith it sounds good on paper but in reality on 4% of the population are leaders. that means 96% are followers. as you know Jesus feed the multitudes but how many became true disciples ??

We know enough leaders to handle and assimilate the 3000 that were converted on the Day of Pentecost.

Jesus never told us to build churches, he told us to make disciples, because we have disobeyed him, we are stuck with a bunch of weak, underdeveloped believers who become dependent upon the system for survival.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by keith4him

We know enough did to handle the 3000 that were converted on the Day of Pentecost.

Jesus never told us to build churches, he told us to make disciples, because we have obeyed him, we are stuck with a bunch of weak, underdeveloped believers who become dependent upon the system for survival.

He also didn't tell us not to and the early Christian church had synagogues to worship in. Their pattern of church apparently followed their Jewish structure of religon.

Likewise I don't think building churches is a bad or good thing today. It serves a purpose in certain cultures / societies.

In a closed atheistic society like Communist China churches do not make sense. Out of neccessity an "underground" church meeting in homes, barns,etc and in secrecy is what works for them.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by CC1

He also didn't tell us not to and the early Christian church had synagogues to worship in. Their pattern of church apparently followed their Jewish structure of religon.

Likewise I don't think building churches is a bad or good thing today. It serves a purpose in certain cultures / societies.

In a closed atheistic society like Communist China churches do not make sense. Out of neccessity an "underground" church meeting in homes, barns,etc and in secrecy is what works for them.

The worship in the synagouge and in public meetings didn't last long, the basically met in homes from 50AD on. The first church building wasnt built for 300 years and only after the apostates came in through Constantine.

But that isn't my point, but we keep designing structures and systems that keep the saints for doing their ministry.

CC1, I love you, but if you couldn't be a consumer and actually have to earn you spiritual keep how would you express that?

I am all for large corporate gatherings for the right reasons. I love them to be honest, but I know that if that is all I am doing to keep restless people spiritual and keep them from backsliding we have major problems.

How many churches would survive if the building was taken away, there we no electricity and no gasoline.

[Thad]

Originally Posted by keith4him

We know enough did to handle the 3000 that were converted on the Day of Pentecost.

Jesus never told us to build churches, he told us to make disciples, because we have obeyed him, we are stuck with a bunch of weak, underdeveloped believers who become dependent upon the system for survival.

you don't believe in building churches? There are many things that jesus never said specifically. and also, the NT church didn't flourish till after his accension.
i'm not necessarily against churches in the house but the church is the people so if they gather in a building of any kind so what ? if it's a church that's great too.
i believe that the early church met in houses due to persecution too and that the NT does endorse church buildings

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Thad

you don't believe in building churches? There are many things that jesus never said specifically. and also, the NT church didn't flourish till after his accension.
i'm not necessarily against churches in the house but the church is the people so if they gather in a building of any kind so what ? if it's a church that's great too.
i believe that the early church met in houses due to persecution too and that the NT does endorse church buildings

I believe in church buildings, but for the right reasons. Let them become training centers and encouraging gatherings that equip and encourage the saints who have been doing their ministry all week long in places where life naturally happens in the homes and marketplace.

Thad, the only picture we have that tells us how to do church, it calls for everyone to particpate, I Cor. 14:26, how do you think this is fulfilled in large corporate gatherings.

[Thad]

Originally Posted by keith4him

I believe in church buildings, but for the right reasons. Let them become training centers and encouraging gatherings that equip and encourage the saints who have been doing their ministry all week long in places where life naturally happens in the homes and marketplace.

Thad, the only picture we have that tells us how to do church, it calls for everyone to particpate, I Cor. 14:26, how do you think this is fulfilled in large corporate gatherings.

Keith, as I said it all SOUNDS good on paper but can you admit that MOST people are followers Not leaders ?? it's reality.
my idea would be for areas to have large buildings were a lot of small churches meet together from time to time but it probably wont happen.
remember this too, a lot of people are advocates of the small venue UNTIL their kids become teens and need a larger church to keep them involved

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Thad

Keith, as I said it all SOUNDS good on paper but can you admit that MOST people are followers Not leaders ?? it's reality.
my idea would be for areas to have large buildings were a lot of small churches meet together from time to time but it probably wont happen.
remember this too, a lot of people are advocates of the small venue UNTIL their kids become teens and need a larger church to keep them involved

I don't believe that everyone is called to be elders (leaders), but they (everyone else) are called to use their talents in whatever capacity that God has given them, but this extends far beyond the current expression as we know it.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by keith4him

We know enough leaders to handle and assimilate the 3000 that were converted on the Day of Pentecost.

Jesus never told us to build churches, he told us to make disciples, because we have disobeyed him, we are stuck with a bunch of weak, underdeveloped believers who become dependent upon the system for survival.

This is absolutely the most profound thing I've read on this forum - EVER. You have hit the nail squarely on the head, my friend.