Good evening visiting Pharisees, wolves and

[Rev]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

You're the one who wrote, " As I already said, I don't know anyone that tries to do that." I thought you might know what it means since you said you didn't know anyone who does that.

What do I think it would look like? Someone who doesn't lead by example but drives the flock with rules and beats them with words.

Are sins mentioned in the bible rules?

If a preacher preaches against the sins mentioned in the bible is he beating the saints with words?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Rev

Are sins mentioned in the bible rules?

If a preacher preaches against the sins mentioned in the bible is he beating the saints with words?

The preacher that preaches against sin (and, yes, this needs to be done) needs to remember that he can be tempted and fall into sin as well so that that knowledge should temper how he teaches. IOW, he can and should preach against sin but with the love and mercy of God in view at all times.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

The preacher that preaches against sin (and, yes, this needs to be done) needs to remember that he can be tempted and fall into sin as well so that that knowledge should temper how he teaches. IOW, he can and should preach against sin but with the love and mercy of God in view at all times.

I often hear people talk about the love of God.

What is that exactly?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Rev

I often hear people talk about the love of God.

What is that exactly?

No doubt, many who are in the OP movement don't know exactly what the love of God is. (again, not necessarily posted @ REV, but he brings up a good point/questions that I believe many pentecostals are ignorant to)

The love of God is a love that burns towards us no matter who we are, what we have done, or where we have gone. It is a love that cannot be quenched. It is a love that suffered all things, willingly, for our sakes. It is the love that caused God himself to [figuratively] get off of the throne in heaven, and come down and subject himself to sinful men who would hate him, abuse him, beat him, spit on him, and murder him, and yet his response wasn't vegenace, but a broken heart.

The love of God is a love that reaches for all people, everywhere. It is not love for sin, but love in spite of sin. It is not love based on our performance, out outward appearence, or our ability to keep the rules. It is a love that is constant and faithful, even if we are not. It is a never changing, ever burning love, not predicated one iota upon our actions. That is the love of God, and that is what pentecostals need a revelation of!


**note, I am not saying that someone is saved because God loves them, but I am specifically saying that God doesn't start hating you because you trimmed your hair, went to a ball game, or wore a tie tack, or watched a movie at the theater. Gods love and also our salvation do not come and go based on such trivial things.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

No doubt, many who are in the OP movement don't know exactly what the love of God is. (again, not necessarily posted @ REV, but he brings up a good point/questions that I believe many pentecostals are ignorant to)

The love of God is a love that burns towards us no matter who we are, what we have done, or where we have gone. It is a love that cannot be quenched. It is a love that suffered all things, willingly, for our sakes. It is the love that caused God himself to [figuratively] get off of the throne in heaven, and come down and subject himself to sinful men who would hate him, abuse him, beat him, spit on him, and murder him, and yet his response wasn't vegenace, but a broken heart.

The love of God is a love that reaches for all people, everywhere. It is not love for sin, but love in spite of sin. It is not love based on our performance, out outward appearence, or our ability to keep the rules. It is a love that is constant and faithful, even if we are not. It is a never changing, ever burning love, not predicated one iota upon our actions. That is the love of God, and that is what pentecostals need a revelation of!


**note, I am not saying that someone is saved because God loves them, but I am specifically saying that God doesn't start hating you because you trimmed your hair, went to a ball game, or wore a tie tack, or watched a movie at the theater. Gods love and also our salvation do not come and go based on such trivial things.

What you are saying would in deed be nice if it were true.

But of course it's not!

(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(Heb 10:28) He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(Heb 10:29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(Heb 10:30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
(Heb 10:31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Rev

What you are saying would in deed be nice if it were true.

But of course it's not!

(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(Heb 10:28) He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(Heb 10:29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(Heb 10:30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
(Heb 10:31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

How does this negate what I said? I didn't say you can sin without repentance and be saved, but I did say that even if your a sinner God still loves you, no matter how bad a sinner you are.

The problem with you, and many like you is you can only see God through judgment colored glasses.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

How does this negate what I said? I didn't say you can sin without repentance and be saved, but I did say that even if your a sinner God still loves you, no matter how bad a sinner you are.

The problem with you, and many like you is you can only see God through judgment colored glasses.

what does "Repentance" mean? If a person sins once, because they were weak, do they need to repent all over again?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Rev

I often hear people talk about the love of God.

What is that exactly?

It looks like Jesus nailed to a cross.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us:...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

The preacher that preaches against sin (and, yes, this needs to be done) needs to remember that he can be tempted and fall into sin as well so that that knowledge should temper how he teaches. IOW, he can and should preach against sin but with the love and mercy of God in view at all times.

Excellent post!

And sin isn't all these flemsy man made standards. Get a grip. Thats where the reference comes in with lording it over the flock. These rules are a dime a dozen, and guess what, those making them rarely can keep ALL of them, and the ones that DO keep them, rarely live mature Christian lives, but rather live Christianity out of fear.

No one is saying the things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 or Galatians 5:19-21 are okay. What we are saying is quit lording it over God's people with rules not found in the Bible, binding heavy burdens on others, when you yourself are not truly willing to even touch one with your pinky finger!

Not necessarily directed ar REV or any other poster, BUT if the shoe fits......