Good evening visiting Pharisees, wolves and

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

No doubt, many who are in the OP movement don't know exactly what the love of God is. (again, not necessarily posted @ REV, but he brings up a good point/questions that I believe many pentecostals are ignorant to)

The love of God is a love that burns towards us no matter who we are, what we have done, or where we have gone. It is a love that cannot be quenched. It is a love that suffered all things, willingly, for our sakes. It is the love that caused God himself to [figuratively] get off of the throne in heaven, and come down and subject himself to sinful men who would hate him, abuse him, beat him, spit on him, and murder him, and yet his response wasn't vegenace, but a broken heart.

The love of God is a love that reaches for all people, everywhere. It is not love for sin, but love in spite of sin. It is not love based on our performance, out outward appearence, or our ability to keep the rules. It is a love that is constant and faithful, even if we are not. It is a never changing, ever burning love, not predicated one iota upon our actions. That is the love of God, and that is what pentecostals need a revelation of!


**note, I am not saying that someone is saved because God loves them, but I am specifically saying that God doesn't start hating you because you trimmed your hair, went to a ball game, or wore a tie tack, or watched a movie at the theater. Gods love and also our salvation do not come and go based on such trivial things.

What you are saying would in deed be nice if it were true.

But of course it's not!

(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(Heb 10:28) He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(Heb 10:29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(Heb 10:30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
(Heb 10:31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Rev

What you are saying would in deed be nice if it were true.

But of course it's not!

(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(Heb 10:28) He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(Heb 10:29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(Heb 10:30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
(Heb 10:31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

How does this negate what I said? I didn't say you can sin without repentance and be saved, but I did say that even if your a sinner God still loves you, no matter how bad a sinner you are.

The problem with you, and many like you is you can only see God through judgment colored glasses.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

How does this negate what I said? I didn't say you can sin without repentance and be saved, but I did say that even if your a sinner God still loves you, no matter how bad a sinner you are.

The problem with you, and many like you is you can only see God through judgment colored glasses.

what does "Repentance" mean? If a person sins once, because they were weak, do they need to repent all over again?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

what does "Repentance" mean? If a person sins once, because they were weak, do they need to repent all over again?

Prax, I guess I am speaking of it in two contexts the first would be initial reprentance as in Mark 1:15 and Luke 13:3 the second would be more along the lines of confession when a saint falls short of the glory of God 1 John 1:7-2:2.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Prax, I guess I am speaking of it in two contexts the first would be initial reprentance as in Mark 1:15 and Luke 13:3 the second would be more along the lines of confession when a saint falls short of the glory of God 1 John 1:7-2:2.

I wish Adino was here to enage in this...Confession and Repentance are not necessarily the same thing..

My question is, if a person has a repented heart full of faith, yet in weak moment he or she sinned, are they instantly lost until they say "Forgive me for my sins"? Do they need to cry or make a long prayer at an alter?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I wish Adino was here to enage in this...Confession and Repentance are not necessarily the same thing..

My question is, if a person has a repented heart full of faith, yet in weak moment he or she sinned, are they instantly lost until they say "Forgive me for my sins"? Do they need to cry or make a long prayer at an alter?

Good question.

It's amazing what some reduce repentance to.

It's usually a formulaic question pleading for forgiveness. I think instead of Grace. The prodigal son. The Father didn't even wait to throw himself at his feet, run to him, and call for the ring. The prodigal turned back toward God was evidence enough that he was coming home, and this extravagant act of grace caused a response of gratitude from the prodigal, confessing his own sin.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I wish Adino was here to enage in this...Confession and Repentance are not necessarily the same thing..

My question is, if a person has a repented heart full of faith, yet in weak moment he or she sinned, are they instantly lost until they say "Forgive me for my sins"? Do they need to cry or make a long prayer at an alter?

No, I don't at all believe they are instantly lost. I believe that once someone is in the body of Christ, the blood of Christ covers all such "sins" because those sins are already on Christs account and His righteousness is on our account. (1 Corinthians 5:21/Romans 3:21-5:1)

I do believe it is possible to be lost after being born again, but I believe that one must choose to walk away from God in complete unbelief, or in complete disobedience and unrepenantant sin. (Ex: say John Doe livbed a Christian life for 20 years, was an exceptional saint, possibly even a preacher and missionary, but gets involved in an affair. If JD repents I believe there remains salvation for him. However if he puts his own selfish desires above God's word, refuses to repent, and continues on in his adulterous lifestyle and dies 10 years later, I would believe he was lost)

Basically I am sayin once we're saved its hard to be lost. You can be if you want to, but if you don't want to be lost, and serve God the best you can, I believe the blood of Christ covers all our sins and failures.

I think the thought that we can be lost over every little thing is a great error (one which Calvinists often accuse Arminians of, which most Arminians do not affirm such)/ But I have seen this type of thinking in the pentecostal movement for a long time. One week Sis Doe is considered to be living a righteous and holy life, the next week she trimmed her hair, and is backslid, on her way to hell. A month goes by, she repents, and is "saved" again. 6 months down the road she "backslides" and loses salvation again. On and on it goes. We all know people who are "in church" and "out of church" about as often as the weather changes. I don't believe salvation is like a merry go round. You either on or off. And once on it is possible to get off, but your not jumping back and forth. I believe Hebrews 6:4-6 applies here.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I wish Adino was here to enage in this...Confession and Repentance are not necessarily the same thing..

My question is, if a person has a repented heart full of faith, yet in weak moment he or she sinned, are they instantly lost until they say "Forgive me for my sins"? Do they need to cry or make a long prayer at an alter?

Sorry Prax, I hope I answered you question in the context you asked it, but I didn't respond to this.

No not necessarily. An alter can be a good place of repentance, but not necessary. My repentance came at home, when I realized if I didn't straighten up I was truly going to hell. I don't even think I used the word "repent" I did ask God to forgive me, and help me to be a Christian. Thats about all I knew, since I don't have much of a religous background, and ZERO Oneness pentecostal background. To me initial repentance is simply a change of heart and direction. It is literally a move from the power of Satan to the power of God.

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

what does "Repentance" mean? If a person sins once, because they were weak, do they need to repent all over again?

Yes... repentance is a frame of mind, a lifestyle, a new outlook.

The word used for "repent" in Acts 2.38 is matanoeo, which literally means to change your mind, to think differently. It's found 32 times in the NT, and is always translated as "repent" in some form. It's not a "Godforgivemei'msosorry" prayer, it's a new attitude about the things in our lives that God has convicted us of. If we don't think differently about those things, how much will we really change?

So... will someone go immediately to hell for a sin they committed after their last "Godforgivemei'msosorry" prayer? Depends on how they view the sin they've just committed. If they're enjoying it, or if they're reveling in it, then that's certainly a possibility (I'm no man's judge). But if they are under conviction and are walking circumspectly in repentance, is a "bow your head for a Godforgivemei'msosorry prayer" really required?

I don't believe our salvation is as fragile as so many do. I honestly believe if people in our movement would ask God for a revelation of GRACE we'd see a lot less people living in fear and condemnation. We'd hear fewer statements like "I'd rather make heaven by a mile than miss it by an inch."

[Adino]

Hey guys! Happy Fourth of July!!!

Had a moment to check in on the forum and saw my name tagged. Wish I had more time to participate regularly but the occasional engagement will have to do.

Jeffery said:

Gospel is not to make bad people good, but to make dead people live!

Great statement, Bro. Love it!

Prax said:

Confession and Repentance are not necessarily the same thing..

Prax, you've introduced an interest discussion with this statement. I think we'd have to clarify what it is we are "confessing" in order to see confession's relation to repentance. I look at repentance and understand it to mean a returning to God. It's a turning away from something and a turning toward something.

The repentance in salvation deals with a turning away from 'dead works' and a turning toward God through faith in Christ. In repentance man turns to God through faith in Christ. The repenting heart returning to God does so by making Jesus Christ the object of its trust. Conversion to Christ thus takes place in repentance. The heart is quickened to faith in Christ in repentance. The heart is made alive to Christ.

I believe confession deals more with the acknowledgment of the need to return to God than it does with listing every transgression one feels he's performed against God. Yes, we should acknowledge ours 'sins' but the greater picture is that we should acknowledge we have sinned against God and that we need to return to him through faith in the testimony he gave of his Son. The confession of Jesus as Lord and Christ is the true focus of conversion. Confession of Christ as the object of one's faith is the goal of repentance and faith in Christ is itself evidence of a regenerate heart.

Christ took our sins to the Cross and paid in full the penalty thereof. All sins imputed to Christ have been dealt with on the Cross. They have been forever historically remitted before God. Though forgiven, mankind is yet spiritually dead and needs to come to Christ in faith for spiritual life. He that does not believe in the testimony God gave of his Son is condemned, not because of the commission of a 'bad deed' but because he has not believed. Man is not condemned for anything imputed to Christ on the Cross.... condemnation in Scripture comes only to the man who does not believe in Christ. Again, why is he condemned? All those spiritually dead are in a state of condemnation because they have yet to accept the life of Christ. He that believes has life. Once a heart is made alive to Christ it remains alive and perpetually justified before God (no matter how many times one may stumble) as long as faith in Christ exists.