Why Acts 2:38? - Page 9

mizpeh · #81 08-05-2010, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Abraham was justified and declared "righteous" BEFORE he entered into the covenant (Genesis 15:6). The covenant wasn't even introduced until two chapters later: Genesis 17:10.

The covenant is as you describe - it requires action on both parts. Salvation however, is a free gift. Romans 5:15 and Romans 6:23.

Can someone be saved without taking part in the covenant?

mizpeh · #82 08-05-2010, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I don't understand you here, Mizpeh. Could you explain further? It looks like tongues is the initial sign that the believer has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

How do you reconcile Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:45-46?

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

10:45 "And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. (46) For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,...."

I'm taking a myoptic look at Acts 2:38 in this response. IOW, I'm only looking at Acts 2:38 and nothing else. There is nothing in Acts 2:38 that addresses speaking with other tongues. We have to make an assumption that those Peter is addressing will know that they have been baptized with the Holy Spirit because we are assuming that they will receive the Spirit the same way that Peter and the other disciples did with the evidence of speaking with other tongues.

It is when we expand outside of chapter 2 we find other evidence that stacks up and confirms our assumption.

pelathais · #83 08-05-2010, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Can someone be saved without taking part in the covenant?

Was Abraham "justified" and declared righteous in Genesis 15 or Genesis 17?

If Genesis 15 says that Abraham was "righteous" then he was "saved" without taking part in the covenant.

Genesis 15:6

*AQuietPlace* · #84 08-05-2010, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Maybe repentance but not water baptism.

The majority of mainstream Christianity doesn't believe in water baptism? Not necessarily complete immersion, but baptism?

DAII · #85 08-05-2010, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

The majority of mainstream Christianity doesn't believe in water baptism? Not necessarily complete immersion, but baptism?

She will respond as NOT NECESSARY ... (in her mind it's necessary to obtain salvation)

but truth is 98% believe it necessary for obedience ... unless they are Quakers who did not practice physical baptism .... but of course are part of the long line of Acts 2:38 believers

Aquila · #86 08-05-2010, 08:16 AM

Here's a thought...

I don't read about a "formula" or anything required regarding what is to be spoken over a believer who is being water baptized. However, we do read what Paul was told to do by Ananias...

Acts 22:16 (King James Version)
16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

It would appear that the believer was to "call upon the name of the Lord" while being water baptized. This would indicate that the words of a preacher during baptism isn't the effectual component. Rather what makes water baptism effectual is the believer's calling upon the name of Jesus.

This would also imply that one could water baptize themselves, calling on the name of Jesus, and it be perfectly effectual.

pastorrush · #87 08-05-2010, 08:18 AM

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mizpeh · #88 08-05-2010, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

The majority of mainstream Christianity doesn't believe in water baptism? Not necessarily complete immersion, but baptism?

They believe that water baptism is symbolic and not necessary for salvation so some believers do not get baptized. I was reading about one such person who had never been baptized until he followed a discussion about baptism on an online forum (not a Oneness Pentecostal forum). From reading his posts, this person seemed to be sincere and thoughtful about serving God. I was surprised when he wrote that he had never been baptized.

mizpeh · #89 08-05-2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII

She will respond as NOT NECESSARY ... (in her mind it's necessary to obtain salvation)

but truth is 98% believe it necessary for obedience ... unless they are Quakers who did not practice physical baptism .... but of course are part of the long line of Acts 2:38 believers

Have you talked to all 98% of believers and know this to be true? Where do you get your stats?

jfrog · #90 08-05-2010, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Have you talked to all 98% of believers and know this to be true? Where do you get your stats?

Stats are great. You don't even need to talk to the whole population in order to get stats about the whole population. If we take a small random sample of the whole population then we can statistically draw conclusions about the whole population within some margin of error.