New Bar at Gound Zero

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Twisp

And exactly what are his ties to radical Islamists? I know, I know, actual evidence is almost too much to ask for, but do try.

As far as him not labeling Hamas a terrorist group, here is his actual statement:

"Asked if he agreed with the State Department's assessment, Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf told WABC radio, "Look, I'm not a politician.
"The issue of terrorism is a very complex question," he told interviewer Aaron Klein.
"There was an attempt in the '90s to have the UN define what terrorism is and say who was a terrorist. There was no ability to get agreement on that."
Asked again for his opinion on Hamas, an exasperated Rauf wouldn't budge.
"I am a peace builder. I will not allow anybody to put me in a position where I am seen by any party in the world as an adversary or as an enemy," Rauf said, insisting that he wants to see peace in Israel between Jews and Arabs."

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...BUaVnfuQcrcabL


Wow, when you actually read what he is saying, it is clear that he is simply trying not to alienate anyone from his mission of interfaith building. I know, that doesn't scare people as much as "Rauf supports terrorism!", but he raises a valid point.

Seriously, you are stretching this a lot.

It's because he refuses to denounce them. If they are wrong, he should say so. He doesn't want to and that is suspect. You can throw your daisies around and jump in the grass, if you want, but we can see what he is about.

We won't be able to do anything about it, because he does have a right, under our Constitution, to build his mosque. Even in poor taste, he will build it and we will give more toward appeasement.

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

It's because he refuses to denounce them. If they are wrong, he should say so. He doesn't want to and that is suspect. You can throw your daisies around and jump in the grass, if you want, but we can see what he is about.

We won't be able to do anything about it, because he does have a right, under our Constitution, to build his mosque. Even in poor taste, he will build it and we will give more toward appeasement.

Yes, he does sidestep the obvious answer to denounce them, but I can see where he is coming from. He is straddling two worlds, and wants to be a peace maker between them.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Twisp

Yes, he does sidestep the obvious answer to denounce them, but I can see where he is coming from. He is straddling two worlds, and wants to be a peace maker between them.

But, he never sidesteps anything else, huh?

BTW, that is one of the major reasons the majority of people don't believe in a moderate Muslim and why I can say that I have not seen ENOUGH moderates speak out against the radicals. So, with you saying, he is being a peace maker - NO - he is being an appeaser.

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

But, he never sidesteps anything else, huh?

BTW, that is one of the major reasons the majority of people don't believe in a moderate Muslim and why I can say that I have not seen ENOUGH moderates speak out against the radicals. So, with you saying, he is being a peace maker - NO - he is being an appeaser.

If you have evidence of him sidestepping something else, then yes, we can agree on that as well. As it stands, that is the only thing I have seen him sidestep on.

He has spoken out against the attacks on Ft Hood, and has openly condemned terrorism:

"We condemn terrorists. We recognize it exists in our faith, but we are committed to eradicate it." He also stated: "We want to rebuild this community. ... This is about moderate Muslims who intend to be and want to be part of the solution."

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...mosque21m.html

"Condemns suicide bombings and all violence carried out in the name of religion."

http://www.asmasociety.org/home/p_press_16.html

A verse comes to mind, if you are so inclined to believe it:

Mat 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God."

Sounds like you are the one not being moderate, not Imam Rauf.

[Sam]

There has been some controversy over this.
Some feel it is a slap in the face to the Americans and especially to the families of those who lost friends and loved ones in this terrorist attack.
Others feel it could be a gesture of good will and healing in that the Muslims could reach out to Americans in love and understanding.
There are a lot of unanswered questions like who is promoting this and where the funding is coming from.

Well, recently a model of the proposed Islamic center has been unveiled and presented to the public.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Sam

There are a lot of unanswered questions like who is promoting this and where the funding is coming from.

That is what is troubling to the American people. He refuses to disclose his funding sources and we don't know the names of any of the board members. His attempt to use the name Cordoba put everyone on the defense. There is no way I can believe that was not intentional. Nobody could be that stupid.

[geekette]

Originally Posted by Sam

Well, recently a model of the proposed Islamic center has been unveiled and presented to the public.

I'm sorry, I am going to be extremely blunt and judgmental, but that picture is unbecoming of a Christian. I guess on the "am I an agnostic or am I am atheist today" question, it's going to be "atheist."

I'd also point out that nobody asks megachurch pastors where they get the money to build their monstrosities to personality. And I consider some of those people to be more dangerous to my way of life (because they'd have me to conform to their way of life, including throwing buckets of ca$$$h their way) than a bunch of shadowy threats flung about in a desperate attempt to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Food for thought:

Matthew 5:44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by geekette

I'm sorry, I am going to be extremely blunt and judgmental, but that picture is unbecoming of a Christian. I guess on the "am I an agnostic or am I am atheist today" question, it's going to be "atheist."

I'd also point out that nobody asks megachurch pastors where they get the money to build their monstrosities to personality. And I consider some of those people to be more dangerous to my way of life (because they'd have me to conform to their way of life, including throwing buckets of ca$$$h their way) than a bunch of shadowy threats flung about in a desperate attempt to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Food for thought:

Matthew 5:44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Excuse me, but if a congregation KNEW the leadership of a church was having any kind of ties with terrorism, they would demand the Board to produce the paperwork to show where their offerings were coming from. Apples to oranges.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Twisp

If you have evidence of him sidestepping something else, then yes, we can agree on that as well. As it stands, that is the only thing I have seen him sidestep on.

He has spoken out against the attacks on Ft Hood, and has openly condemned terrorism:

"We condemn terrorists. We recognize it exists in our faith, but we are committed to eradicate it." He also stated: "We want to rebuild this community. ... This is about moderate Muslims who intend to be and want to be part of the solution."

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...mosque21m.html

"Condemns suicide bombings and all violence carried out in the name of religion."

http://www.asmasociety.org/home/p_press_16.html

A verse comes to mind, if you are so inclined to believe it:

Mat 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God."

Sounds like you are the one not being moderate, not Imam Rauf.

Great scripture to throw out to silence anyone from speaking out about things they don't agree with. He obviously was skirting the issue on the funding, as has been reported, but you don't want to look at that.

I'll remind you that Paul, who was jailed illegally, under Roman law, appealed to Cesar. Would you say he wasn't being a peacemaker?

And sorry that I won't side with Rauf's attempt to build a mosque of peace in a community that doesn't want it there. Is he being a peacemaker?

[Twisp]

Great scripture to throw out to silence anyone from speaking out about things they don't agree with.

Not throwing out any scripture, just commenting on how the Bible views peacemakers. If that is contrary to your beliefs, that is an issue you will need to resolve, not me.

He obviously was skirting the issue on the funding, as has been reported, but you don't want to look at that.

Hmm, he answered both times. First time was "our communities", second time was "this community, the American community, this financial community". That seems to cover everyone.

I'll remind you that Paul, who was jailed illegally, under Roman law, appealed to Cesar. Would you say he wasn't being a peacemaker?

I would say he was being a peacemaker, yes. Unless he was appealing violently, lol.

And sorry that I won't side with Rauf's attempt to build a mosque of peace in a community that doesn't want it there. Is he being a peacemaker?

Yes, he is clearly trying to be a peacemaker and build a bridge between communities, just as he said.

It is your right to not agree with him. No argument there.