New Bar at Gound Zero

[geekette]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Excuse me, but if a congregation KNEW the leadership of a church was having any kind of ties with terrorism, they would demand the Board to produce the paperwork to show where their offerings were coming from. Apples to oranges.

No they wouldn't.

Seriously, they wouldn't, because first of all, they'd never hear about it, and if they did hear about it, they'd be so browbeaten by "touch not thine anointed" and "if you don't like it, get out, 'God' is in charge here" that they'd never ask. Besides, if a Christian does it, it's never terrorism, even if it's bombing an abortion clinic or killing a doctor. Or merely just trying to take over the government for Jesus (e.g., "seven mountains mandate").

It's only terrorism if someone whose beliefs you dislike does it. And yes, there is terrorism incited by radical Islamic jihadist beliefs--beliefs that most Muslims do not hold. I have harsh, unprintable opinions about the Taliban, for example.

And, if churches don't have to present papers laying out their funding to be able to build, then neither should this mosque. I hope that this group is very open and aboveboard about all of its funding. That way we all can check 'em out--which is more than I can say for your average megachurch.

[Socialite]

MB, the problem with using the KKK/Rosa Parks analogy, is that it assumes "All Muslims are American-hating extremists."

I think I can agree with the analogy in degree, but it certainly ups the ante for what is really happening and exposes maybe unfair logical assumptions on our part.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Socialite

MB, the problem with using the KKK/Rosa Parks analogy, is that it assumes "All Muslims are American-hating extremists."

I think I can agree with the analogy in degree, but it certainly ups the ante for what is really happening and exposes maybe unfair logical assumptions on our part.

True, and I agree there are lots of peaceful Muslims who don't hate "Americans", although their religion does demand that they do not hold an affinity for infidels, to put it mildly. We have some friends from Missouri who are Muslims, and they would never support any act of violence.

[Pressing-On]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORhuh...layer_embedded

[Pressing-On]

Walid Shoebat Exposes 911 Mosque Imam Rauf

"The interview was translated from Arabic to English by Walid Shoebat, a former Palestinian terrorist who converted to Christianity and became a U.S. citizen. Essentially Rauf wants to use peaceful means including lobbying governments and establishing charities to incrementally implement the principles of Sharia law worldwide so once the stranglehold is established, potentially enacting Sharia-ordered decapitation and stoning of ‘infidels’ (any non-Muslims)"

http://www.shoebat.com/blog/archives/393

[Sam]

At a Presidential Muslim religious celebration of Ramadan, Obama spoke before a group of about 90 people, including Muslim community leaders, ambassadors, dignitaries and Rep. Andre Carson (D-Ind.), one of two Muslim members of Congress. President Barack Hussein Obama on Friday endorsed a controversial plan to build a mosque and Islamic center just blocks from Ground Zero in Manhattan, despite the strong objections of conservatives, the ADL and those who lost loved ones in the September 11 attacks.

In recent weeks, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs had deflected questions on the issue, insisting it is “a matter for New York City and the local community to decide.”

Earlier this week, in a statement recognizing the onset of the Muslim holy month, Obama said that the rituals of Ramadan “remind us of the principles that we hold in common, and Islam’s role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings.”

The event is this White House’s second recognition of Ramadan, the Islamic month of fasting, with a traditional iftar dinner—a communal event that traditionally marks the breaking of the fast at sundown.


A recent CNN poll found that 68 percent of those surveyed did not approve of building a mosque so close to where the World Trade Center towers fell, killing more than 2,000 people.

“There should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia,” Newt Gingrich wrote on his website. “The time for double standards that allow Islamists to behave aggressively toward us while they demand our weakness and submission is over.”

Earlier this mornth, the ADL came out against the mosque. This week, prominent conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer even compared the proposed mosque to construction of German heritage center at the Auschwitz concentration camp.

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) said Obama is “wrong” to endorse an “insensitive and uncaring” project.

“While the Muslim community has the right to build the mosque they are abusing that right by needlessly offending so many people who have suffered so much,” he said in a statement Friday. “The right and moral thing for President Obama to have done was to urge Muslim leaders to respect the families of those who died and move their mosque away from Ground Zero. Unfortunately, the president caved in to political correctness."

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Sam

At a Presidential Muslim religious celebration of Ramadan, Obama spoke before a group of about 90 people, including Muslim community leaders, ambassadors, dignitaries and Rep. Andre Carson (D-Ind.), one of two Muslim members of Congress. President Barack Hussein Obama on Friday endorsed a controversial plan to build a mosque and Islamic center just blocks from Ground Zero in Manhattan, despite the strong objections of conservatives, the ADL and those who lost loved ones in the September 11 attacks.

In recent weeks, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs had deflected questions on the issue, insisting it is “a matter for New York City and the local community to decide.”

Earlier this week, in a statement recognizing the onset of the Muslim holy month, Obama said that the rituals of Ramadan “remind us of the principles that we hold in common, and Islam’s role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings.”

The event is this White House’s second recognition of Ramadan, the Islamic month of fasting, with a traditional iftar dinner—a communal event that traditionally marks the breaking of the fast at sundown.


A recent CNN poll found that 68 percent of those surveyed did not approve of building a mosque so close to where the World Trade Center towers fell, killing more than 2,000 people.

“There should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia,” Newt Gingrich wrote on his website. “The time for double standards that allow Islamists to behave aggressively toward us while they demand our weakness and submission is over.”

Earlier this mornth, the ADL came out against the mosque. This week, prominent conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer even compared the proposed mosque to construction of German heritage center at the Auschwitz concentration camp.

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) said Obama is “wrong” to endorse an “insensitive and uncaring” project.

“While the Muslim community has the right to build the mosque they are abusing that right by needlessly offending so many people who have suffered so much,” he said in a statement Friday. “The right and moral thing for President Obama to have done was to urge Muslim leaders to respect the families of those who died and move their mosque away from Ground Zero. Unfortunately, the president caved in to political correctness."

Big-time NG fan. Have to disagree with him here.

First of all, we are America. I wouldn't compare the unlikelihood of a Cathedral near the site of a Crusade in the Middle East. But we are America. We are bigger than that. The word "moral" here is again confounding. The President was asked to speak about it, and he wasn't going to offend Muslim-Americans by suggesting they are stigmatized by the act of those 9/11 radicals. His duty is to protect and serve the Constitution.... which is a legal aspect. He kept his comments in that vain.

Political correctness? I don't think W would've rebuked the Muslim community either, to be honest. Any classy President wouldn't.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by geekette

No they wouldn't.

Seriously, they wouldn't, because first of all, they'd never hear about it, and if they did hear about it, they'd be so browbeaten by "touch not thine anointed" and "if you don't like it, get out, 'God' is in charge here" that they'd never ask. Besides, if a Christian does it, it's never terrorism, even if it's bombing an abortion clinic or killing a doctor. Or merely just trying to take over the government for Jesus (e.g., "seven mountains mandate").

That is not how our church operates. And my husband is on the Board and you bet they would be asking.

It's only terrorism if someone whose beliefs you dislike does it. And yes, there is terrorism incited by radical Islamic jihadist beliefs--beliefs that most Muslims do not hold. I have harsh, unprintable opinions about the Taliban, for example.

There is also a peaceful or quiet jihad. Sharia Law being implemented into our financial sector is one way. It is not how the financing is set up, it's that it is being set up under Sharia Law. Study AIG and you will know more.

And, if churches don't have to present papers laying out their funding to be able to build, then neither should this mosque. I hope that this group is very open and aboveboard about all of its funding. That way we all can check 'em out--which is more than I can say for your average megachurch.

Didn't say they had to. The background in this situation is a bit different. Mainly, Rauf refuses to disclose his backers, his father was also a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, no one is sure whether Rauf has ties with them as well. It is just a trail that leaves people uncomfortable.

Now, I do believe they have the right, under our Constitution, to build their mosque and exercise their religious freedom. The angst over the whole issue is that it is a poor choice of location and a very poor, initial choice, in naming the project. Immediately, everything was suspect. If they were going to do relationship healing and building, I find it strange that they used the location and name to do it. Apparently, so do the majority of Americans as they are against it.