Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

[BroGary]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Bologna

the evidence isn't "crying" in tongues, the evidence is the fruit of the Spirit. MAybe only my Bible says "you shall know them by their fruits."????

Sorry but anyone can show some fruit of good behaviour without the Holy Ghost, that is why God choose to have tongues as the initial evidence.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Acts 10:45,46 ....was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues....

Isaiah 28:11,12 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by BroGary

Sorry but anyone can show some fruit of good behaviour without the Holy Ghost, that is why God choose to have tongues as the initial evidence.

So how do you explain those who DO SPEAK WITH TONGUES, yet are hateful, gossiping, have no self control, are unhappy, and yield pratically NO fruit of the Spirit, that is unless you count things as fruit that the Bible doesn't, such as tongues, dress codes, and the such like. None of those things are fruit in the Biblical sense, those many pulpits have attempted to classify them as such.

Originally Posted by BroGary

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

If speaking in tongues is absolutely required of ALL believers, so is casting out devils.

Furthermore, you stopped a verse too soon. If casting out devils is literal, and tongues is literal (as we would agree), and if tongues is for EVERY BELIEVER WITHOUT EXCEPTION, then so would also be drinking deadly poison and taking up snakes. IF we're going for ABSOLUTE BIBLICAL CHRISTIANTY, using your hermunetic, I would say the Snake Handlers have more to boast about.

Originally Posted by BroGary

Acts 10:45,46 ....was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues....

Again, you're not quoting the whole verse, I'll help you out it concludes "and magnify God."

They spoke in tongues yes, but they obviously spoke something intelligable to someone. Tongues isn't repeating sounds, nor unknown languages, but rather supernaturally bestowed UNLEARNED languages. Tongues is ALWAYS an actual language.

Originally Posted by BroGary

Isaiah 28:11,12 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

I've known many who supposedly reached the stage of "stammering lips" but didn't speak in tongues, therefore didn't get the Holy Ghost. TONGUES isn't the rest, belief IS (Hebrews 4).

[BroGary]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

So how do you explain those who DO SPEAK WITH TONGUES, yet are hateful, gossiping, have no self control, are unhappy, and yield pratically NO fruit of the Spirit, that is unless you count things as fruit that the Bible doesn't, such as tongues, dress codes, and the such like. None of those things are fruit in the Biblical sense, those many pulpits have attempted to classify them as such.

If speaking in tongues is absolutely required of ALL believers, so is casting out devils.

Furthermore, you stopped a verse too soon. If casting out devils is literal, and tongues is literal (as we would agree), and if tongues is for EVERY BELIEVER WITHOUT EXCEPTION, then so would also be drinking deadly poison and taking up snakes. IF we're going for ABSOLUTE BIBLICAL CHRISTIANTY, using your hermunetic, I would say the Snake Handlers have more to boast about.

Again, you're not quoting the whole verse, I'll help you out it concludes "and magnify God."

They spoke in tongues yes, but they obviously spoke something intelligable to someone. Tongues isn't repeating sounds, nor unknown languages, but rather supernaturally bestowed UNLEARNED languages. Tongues is ALWAYS an actual language.

Isaiah 28:11,12 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.[/QUOTE]

I've known many who supposedly reached the stage of "stammering lips" but didn't speak in tongues, therefore didn't get the Holy Ghost. TONGUES isn't the rest, belief IS (Hebrews 4).[/QUOTE]

Your arguements are invalid and simply do not negate that tongues are the initial evidence. You might not bother to read this, but this makes it pretty clear:

http://www.upci.org/doctrine/tongues.asp

Why do people resist what God wants (and requires) them to have ?

Isaiah 28:12 To whom he said, This [is] the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this [is] the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by BroGary

Your arguements are invalid and simply do not negate that tongues are the initial evidence. You might not bother to read this, but this makes it pretty clear:

http://www.upci.org/doctrine/tongues.asp

My arguments are invalid and all you are offering in response is a tract?

As for reading it, I not only have read it, but own it, it is in my files in my study. I not only have read it, but used its arguments in the past in FAVOR of the initial evidence doctrine. I'm familiar with the tract, all of which does nothing to invalidate my arguments.

Originally Posted by BroGary

Why do people resist what God wants (and requires) them to have ?

Good question. Why do you resist the scriptures which teach salvation is not by works, but by grace, and that we are justified by faith.

Furthermore, what makes you think I have resisted what God wants?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

So how do you explain those who DO SPEAK WITH TONGUES, yet are hateful, gossiping, have no self control, are unhappy, and yield pratically NO fruit of the Spirit, that is unless you count things as fruit that the Bible doesn't, such as tongues, dress codes, and the such like. None of those things are fruit in the Biblical sense, those many pulpits have attempted to classify them as such.

If speaking in tongues is absolutely required of ALL believers, so is casting out devils.

Furthermore, you stopped a verse too soon. If casting out devils is literal, and tongues is literal (as we would agree), and if tongues is for EVERY BELIEVER WITHOUT EXCEPTION, then so would also be drinking deadly poison and taking up snakes. IF we're going for ABSOLUTE BIBLICAL CHRISTIANTY, using your hermunetic, I would say the Snake Handlers have more to boast about.

Again, you're not quoting the whole verse, I'll help you out it concludes "and magnify God."

They spoke in tongues yes, but they obviously spoke something intelligable to someone. Tongues isn't repeating sounds, nor unknown languages, but rather supernaturally bestowed UNLEARNED languages. Tongues is ALWAYS an actual language.



I've known many who supposedly reached the stage of "stammering lips" but didn't speak in tongues, therefore didn't get the Holy Ghost. TONGUES isn't the rest, belief IS (Hebrews 4).

Bump, for Bro. Gary, from post #128