John MacArthur: POLYTHEIST?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Not interested in getting into a debate, but suffice to say this; the denial of free will is legalism.

The doctrines of total depravity, irresistible grace and predestination deny one has any part in their salvific process, but rather God's justice rules, rather than his love. God to them is not "all" loving, but only to those whom he chooses to love. The scripture they use is "Jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated"...which if u study this objectively, God's talking about the nation of Edomites which did much harm to Israel and also that word hate means "love less" in the Hebrew idiom.

God is not so sovereign that he violates his own nature. He is all loving. He died for all...

When defining the gospel, John believes in limited atonement. That Christ's death was not for "all" but only the elect. This doctrine denies grace for all, but rather only to the elect and since no one knows who they are, we are to preach the gospel and the elect will respond. Spurgeon said that if the elect had a big "E" on their backs, we would know who they are and wouldn't need to preach.

He also believes in the perseverance of the saints which does not truly guarantee salvation until death and then one cannot be sure you are part of the elect. Many puritan calvanists died fearful of their salvation not knowing if they were part of the elect.
If one studies the roots of calvanism, you will understand my statement concerning legalism. Love and relationship are non-existent. Fear is the root.

Furthermore, Calvan himself did not espouse some of the modern hyper doctrines which are re surging in today's modern reformed churches. I consider myself reformed, but not so much I deny men must repent and believe to be saved.

Staysharp,

I understand your point of view now.

How do you interpret the scriptures that point to GOD hardening Pharoah's heart?

How do you interpret the scriptures that clearly state that GOD knows who are His?

How do you interpret the scripture that no one can come unto the Father unless the Spirit draws them?

If we are a chosen generation and a royal priesthood, who chose us and who has annointed us? Was there a time that GOD did not know that we would be chosen and anointed?


From what I have heard from MacArthur, there is not any fear mongering in his sermons. There are clear declarations to depart form sin. He presents scriptural concepts for living in a way that is applicable today.


John MacArthur is no more POLYTHEISTIC than we are UNITARIAN.

[Praxeas]

HIJACK ALERT!!!!!

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

HIJACK ALERT!!!!!

I promise that is not my intent-- it never is.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Staysharp,

I understand your point of view now.

How do you interpret the scriptures that point to GOD hardening Pharoah's heart?

How do you interpret the scriptures that clearly state that GOD knows who are His?

How do you interpret the scripture that no one can come unto the Father unless the Spirit draws them?

If we are a chosen generation and a royal priesthood, who chose us and who has annointed us? Was there a time that GOD did not know that we would be chosen and anointed?


From what I have heard from MacArthur, there is not any fear mongering in his sermons. There are clear declarations to depart form sin. He presents scriptural concepts for living in a way that is applicable today.


John MacArthur is no more POLYTHEISTIC than we are UNITARIAN.

the scripture tells us why; Romans 9:7 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

No doubt; God uses who he chooses and with regard to His call to satisfy His divine purpose, yes he calls whom he chooses. No debate there. The problem is salvation, not one of a specific task for a specific reason.

Jesus said..."if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me"...Calvary is the voice of God calling every human being back to God.

The generation of the Apostles was chosen for the specific task of delivering the message of Christ and saving the Jewish people before the destruction of Jerusalem. This generation shall not pass away...etc. Save yourself from this untoward generation...this was Peter's plea to those who murdered Christ.

Understand I am not saying McArthur isn't a man of God, etc. I am saying some of the doctrines he espouses IMO are unbiblical and damaging to love.

Truth is you can preach all you want to about sin, but until someone falls in love with Christ and his body, the selfishness will continue. The antidote for sin is God's love exampled by Christ. God's Agape love places others above yourself...loving God and others more than you love yourself; the first and greatest of all commands...one will rarely sin against others when he places them first; by loving them according to God's definition of love...1 Cor 13.

Evil is simply the absence of God's love.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by staysharp

the scripture tells us why; Romans 9:7 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

No doubt; God uses who he chooses and with regard to His call to satisfy His divine purpose, yes he calls whom he chooses. No debate there. The problem is salvation, not one of a specific task for a specific reason.

Jesus said..."if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me"...Calvary is the voice of God calling every human being back to God.

The generation of the Apostles was chosen for the specific task of delivering the message of Christ and saving the Jewish people before the destruction of Jerusalem. This generation shall not pass away...etc. Save yourself from this untoward generation...this was Peter's plea to those who murdered Christ.

Understand I am not saying McArthur isn't a man of God, etc. I am saying some of the doctrines he espouses IMO are unbiblical and damaging to love.

Truth is you can preach all you want to about sin, but until someone falls in love with Christ and his body, the selfishness will continue. The antidote for sin is God's love exampled by Christ. God's Agape love places others above yourself...loving God and others more than you love yourself; the first and greatest of all commands...one will rarely sin against others when he places them first; by loving them according to God's definition of love...1 Cor 13.

Evil is simply the absence of God's love.

Even still, God has given us free will. Does He not know the end from the beginning-- those who will use their free will to succesfully resist the drawing of the Holy Spirit?

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Even still, God has given us free will. Does He not know the end from the beginning-- those who will use their free will to succesfully resist the drawing of the Holy Spirit?

yup, that's called rebellion...the nation of Israel repeatedly resisted the drawing of God. a true dyed in the wool Calvanist doesn't embrace free will, but rather "irresistible grace" which is a fancy word for "god will get u if he really wants to"...

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by staysharp

yup, that's called rebellion...the nation of Israel repeatedly resisted the drawing of God. a true dyed in the wool Calvanist doesn't embrace free will, but rather "irresistible grace" which is a fancy word for "god will get u if he really wants to"...

This is really a different topic than the opener... but, Hey! Who cares, right?

staysharp, if God really "wanted to get you" - do you think you would be able to resist?

He is God, after all. He does do "all things after the counsel of His will." If He "wants" you - you're gonna be His.