Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Pagans using color is not the same as creating a ring specifically for pagan reasons. Now whether it looses it'sm pagan intent being acceptable for christian wear is the issue.

How far removed form pagan intent can christians partake of a pagan custom? At what point is it deemed acceptable? 1 year out, 2yr, 10yrs, 100yrs etc....

The principle is absolutely the same. Symbols have meaning. When I wear, or anyone wears, a wedding band today, does it have some pagan meaning? No. The symbol and meaning has changed.

I'll let you figure out that question. It doesn't keep me up at night.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by rdp

I would disagree that the wearing of decorative ornaments is not a "bahaviour." If I deck out in jewels from head to toe, fine linens, etc....is this not "behaviour"? Of course it is.

Much more to say, but gotta' run......

Definitely disagree with you.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by rdp

Yea' & where was Joseph at? Egypt...which God calls us out of! Try again.....

yes definnatly a modern day pharasee.

why do you even question weather or not i have been baptized in Jesus Name? would i have even bothered to search out for a apostolc forum?

there is things i do not agree with when it comes to some apostolic doctrines.

Being Honest the standards that was made to help seperate us from the world has turned many people into modern day pharasees. there more pron to accuse a person for the standards than they are preaching Jesus.

Wearing my wedding ring doesnt bother me. It doesnt bother my pastor or his wife, and were all upci. Even when trains (YES TRAINS) were built they were considered evil and a decive of satan cause they scared kids.

just because some heathen wanted to practise some item for his worship does not mean that was made for the specific event.

I.E even pagans offered sacrifices, does that make the sacrifices to God pagen. No of course not. Everyday on the calander is pagen, does that mean you Honor the sun on sunday or saturn on saturday. No of course not we use it for keeping days weeks and months so your logic is flawed.


IN THIS DAY and age i think a wedding ring is even more relative. cause people who relate the sanctity of marriage still reflect on that with a wedding ring.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Definitely disagree with you.

Definitely agree with you here !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by acerrak

yes definnatly a modern day pharasee.

Yaaaawwwn..the ol' "Pharisee" shot. Not even worthy of comment, since you apparently do not even comprehend what the pharisee's problem was. BTW, can I preach in a pair of boxers Sun. morn.? NO? Watch out you "pharisee" !

why do you even question weather or not i have been baptized in Jesus Name? would i have even bothered to search out for a apostolc forum?

Ughhh, you apparently do not understand how many trinitarians there are on here.

there is things i do not agree with when it comes to some apostolic doctrines.

Being Honest the standards that was made to help seperate us from the world has turned many people into modern day pharasees. there more pron to accuse a person for the standards than they are preaching Jesus.

Ughhh, Jesus is the One who taught us to believe on Him through the Apostles words...including I Tim. 2 & I Ptr. 3.

Wearing my wedding ring doesnt bother me. It doesnt bother my pastor or his wife, and were all upci. Even when trains (YES TRAINS) were built they were considered evil and a decive of satan cause they scared kids.

Trains??? Talk about a Non-Sequiter! Pls. tell me you're not comparing transportation to decorative ornamentation! Regarding your wedding ring & the UPCI...this is one of many reasons why we do not fellowship the UPCI. You explain away the God-Breathed Scriptures that don't fit your life-style & desires. Sad...very sad.

just because some heathen wanted to practise some item for his worship does not mean that was made for the specific event.

I.E even pagans offered sacrifices, does that make the sacrifices to God pagen. No of course not. Everyday on the calander is pagen, does that mean you Honor the sun on sunday or saturn on saturday. No of course not we use it for keeping days weeks and months so your logic is flawed.

Not hardly....You apparently do not understand the "Syncretical Fallacy." Also, according to your logic here, your "perceived" inconsistencies on others validates your own disobedience. If that's the case then those w/ inconsistent lives w/ regard to repentance would validate our stopping to preach repentance! Absurd!


IN THIS DAY and age i think a wedding ring is even more relative. cause people who relate the sanctity of marriage still reflect on that with a wedding ring.

Ahhh yes, the ol' cultural card again used to trump the Bible. What was I thinking????????????????????????

[acerrak]

i do not throw upci theology around here. some of my other post including doctrine is against some of upci teaching. even though i go there.

now again show me pagan rings in the bible. the gold that peter specifically was talking about was woman dressing up to show stature and wealth. that is not the case with my wedding ring. its not showcasing my wealth. which is below poverty level.

so again im not gonna debate this with you. luke 15:22 either rings or pagen or they are not. regardless of what we use them for today. if you call any of them pagen or the concept pagen. then you have rightfully declared Jesus describing a pagan act in scriptures.

[onefaith2]

The post has become about jewelry and not about Isaiah 3 and jewelry lol.

Very interesting arguments from both sides. Can I get a witness from anyone whom GOD has convicted them of wearing jewelry? Lets see what the Holy Ghost has to say about it.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

The post has become about jewelry and not about Isaiah 3 and jewelry lol.

Very interesting arguments from both sides. Can I get a witness from anyone whom GOD has convicted them of wearing jewelry? Lets see what the Holy Ghost has to say about it.

With all due respect, that would neither confirm nor deny the biblical accuracy of the biblical perspective of jewelry.

This "I feel convicted" gauge can be quite loosey-goosey. And when the Spirit does convict, it could very well be due to heart-level issues and not necessarily jewelry itself. The Spirit does not have a once-for-all perspective on this.

Ironically, many people today who swear conviction have either grown up, or joined a fellowship that corporately "feels convicted." Definitely some sociological implications at work here that we must sort through.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

With all due respect, that would neither confirm nor deny the biblical accuracy of the biblical perspective of jewelry.

This "I feel convicted" gauge can be quite loosey-goosey. And when the Spirit does convict, it could very well be due to heart-level issues and not necessarily jewelry itself. The Spirit does not have a once-for-all perspective on this.

Ironically, many people today who swear conviction have either grown up, or joined a fellowship that corporately "feels convicted." Definitely some sociological implications at work here that we must sort through.

Have you ever felt convicted of wearing jewelry? Are you saying that most convictions regarding this is NOT the Holy Ghost but rather the church people? How then would you KNOW the difference?

With all due respect as well, this would definitely affirm the biblical leading of the Holy Ghost found in the gospel of John and why Paul and Peter would address the issue to begin with in the epistles.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, i.e. the Holy Ghost.

I would note that most standards today come from not only Biblical principles but also convictions of some of the forefathers of the holiness movement. Were they all wrong?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by acerrak

i do not throw upci theology around here. some of my other post including doctrine is against some of upci teaching. even though i go there.

now again show me pagan rings in the bible.

Happy to oblige: See Deut. 7:25. Was God talking about pagans there? Are most rings made of gold & silver? Of course they are. Regarding the wedding ring, how can I give you Scripture saying it's pagan when it didn't even exist at the time...since neither did the Catholic church!?!?!? It would be like giving you a verse against internet !!

the gold that peter specifically was talking about was woman dressing up to show stature and wealth.

Wow...did you just pull that one of the 23 chp. of your imagination? Where does the text itself state this:__________? BTW, this is highly unlikely given the way women were suppressed back then. They couldn't even testify in a court of law, since there testimony wasn't considered legit. Besides, remember that bit above about me "showing it to you in the Bible"? What you require of me you yourself cannot provide. Thus, you import your theology into the text, which never states the same.

that is not the case with my wedding ring. its not showcasing my wealth. which is below poverty level.

I do not doubt that, but you ARE in outright disobedience to the Bible [I Tim. 2, I Ptr. 3, Is. 3, Deut. 7:25, etc.].

so again im not gonna debate this with you. luke 15:22 either rings or pagen or they are not. regardless of what we use them for today. if you call any of them pagen or the concept pagen. then you have rightfully declared Jesus describing a pagan act in scriptures.

So, in I Ptr. 3 you wanna' appeal to the 'supposed' culture of the day, but in Lk. 15 you ignore the culture of the day [i.e., signet ring vs. ornamental jewelry]. Hmmm, I smell selectivity in the camp!