Should the Message of Hell be preached in Churches

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Interesting.

Do you see an eternal reward for the "Saved"? And what do you see for the "afterlife" of the unsaved? Nothing? Heaven? If heaven, would you be a universalist? I'm interested in your thoughts on the subject.

MS, I believe all Doctrines (Religious, Political, Moral, Secular Education, ect.) need the element of a defined measurement. When God created the Heavens and the Earth, we are awed by this miracle that can be “Measured”. Guess work is removed by the gauge, compass, ruler, and the many other forms of instruments that give us a defined answer. I believe even miracles can be measured.

I have come to understand things, by things, taking the guess work out of Faith. I’m tired of people saying things that lead to the dead end road or more guessing. I don’t believe God wants us to guess, He wants us to know. Jesus said that Truth will make us free, and valid Truth will, not guessed Truth. Guessed Truth leads to bondage, suffering, manipulation, murder, and Religious dogma that destroys.

In my own life, I’ve come to use 4 main principles to define Truth; Experience, History, Science, and Common Sense. I believe God has given us these to Test the validity of virtually anything, including God Himself. I don’t want to sidetrack from the concept of Eternal Damnation, so here is my opinion of Hell.

First, Experience is no longer a distant concept in my life. I’ve been married 30 years, raised 3 children, have 6 grandchildren, have pastored for 14 years, been in Apostolic Church for 32 years, and have read the Bible more times than I can count. I’ve suffered, rejoiced, fallen, risen, loved, hated, and have worked hard all of my life. God gives every man, Experience. Experience is our greatest teacher, and understanding comes to those who will endure the many years of everyday living.

Through Experience, we come to know the power and love of relationship. This is the most prominent part of a person; how they deal with people. Through love, patience, and much long suffering, we reap great knowledge concerning human compassion and mercy. We learn that those that come from our loins will always be our children. Even when they fail, we still love. Even when they hurt us, we still reach for them. And, never would we send them into Eternal Flames to suffer for the wrongs they’ve done in life. In the Bible, there are countless Scriptures that refer to God as our Father, and we His sons and daughters. We are able to compare God’s feeling for us through our earthly experience of Family.

Through History, we can analyze the past to see the downfalls of Societies, Religions, and Politics. We can see how people stood up with the Truth of Measurement, and how they were cast to the dogs of execution, imprisonment, and excommunication. History can also validate what God’s Chosen were taught. Nowhere in Jewish History before the New Testament, did the mainstay of Jewish society teach of such a place as Eternal Fire, where people would live in unending torment. This alone poses a huge problem, as suddenly this “Place” appears in more modern documents. If God determined this consequence or punishment for fallen mankind, it would have been known since the beginning. History would reveal a consistent pattern of something so brutal, but it doesn’t.

Science is beyond awesome, as we’ve come to learn things by the use of microscopes, x-rays, laboratories, telescopes, space travel, and so on. This allows us to verify; is the Earth flat or round? Does life begin in the womb? How can we conquer disease? How does the human body work? Is it possible to predict the weather? By Science, we can look at Religion to validate a hoax or Truth. I started a Thread on Noah’s Ark, revealing a scientific catastrophe that many have never considered. Food, water, animal waste, the ability of the Ark being able to even float, all this and more revealed a host of problems that we mustn’t ignore. Eternal Hell, in its scientific form is beyond sick. People wailing forever in flames and darkness, when measured, leaves even the worst of humanity as saints. I’m not even sure Hitler could stand by, listening to the screams of people in agony as they begged for deliverance into the eons of nothingness.

Common Sense is nothing more than simple sense. In my line of work there is what is called the Golden Rule. As an insurance agent, I’m required to use this common sense approach when advising my clients; what would I do for myself? This works, as I look across my desk when people are asking me what they should do to protect themselves. According to Scripture, God made man in His image. I believe we have a basic format in us that relates directly to our Creator. Mercy, love, forgiveness, and many other attributes were birthed in us by the One who made us. Looking at the Christian Hell, common sense in me does not understand why God would continue to allow man to propagate the Earth so the belly of Hell can be full. If mankind is truly that bad, this whole mess should have been done away with long ago.

When Jesus walked this Earth, consider these people; The Adulterous Woman, the Sinner smiting his breast, the Prodigal Son, the Woman at the well, the Thief on the cross, those who crucified Jesus (Father forgive them, for they know not what they do), the Demoniac, the Roman Centurion, the man left dead in the ditch by thieves. Everywhere you turn, you find Jesus extending mercy to the fallen and sick. Sorry, but I can’t imagine Jesus sending people over a cliff into this extreme chasm of Torture. It just doesn’t measure up. It’s not the same Jesus that was reaching to the dead, hungry, and lonely. It’s not the same Jesus who killed the fatted calf when the son came home. It’s not the same Jesus who reached into a grave and raised a dead man.

Eternal Damnation appears to be an onslaught of Interpretation/Translation error. I’ve attached a link at the bottom that reveals a host of problems concerning our current understanding of what Hell is via the Bible we use.

What happens after we die is a mystery. I don’t have a telephone to call God on, asking Him how things are going up there. The Jews of old went around and around over this. I’m honest, my take on the afterlife is uncertain, and I leave that to God. Everyone wants to live forever in peace, joy, love, and where we cry no more. But I’m not there yet, so I can’t say what it’s like. I want to be safe, so I admit my lack of understanding to the Lord. I cry, and ask Him to help me in my limited form and frame. I beat my chest daily, and I know I’m just a man.

I see this World as God’s doing. He made everything. And, He is well able to redeem the unredeemable.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/He...e_Forever.html

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

MS, I believe all Doctrines (Religious, Political, Moral, Secular Education, ect.) need the element of a defined measurement. When God created the Heavens and the Earth, we are awed by this miracle that can be “Measured”. Guess work is removed by the gauge, compass, ruler, and the many other forms of instruments that give us a defined answer. I believe even miracles can be measured.

I have come to understand things, by things, taking the guess work out of Faith. I’m tired of people saying things that lead to the dead end road or more guessing. I don’t believe God wants us to guess, He wants us to know. Jesus said that Truth will make us free, and valid Truth will, not guessed Truth. Guessed Truth leads to bondage, suffering, manipulation, murder, and Religious dogma that destroys.

In my own life, I’ve come to use 4 main principles to define Truth; Experience, History, Science, and Common Sense. I believe God has given us these to Test the validity of virtually anything, including God Himself. I don’t want to sidetrack from the concept of Eternal Damnation, so here is my opinion of Hell.

First, Experience is no longer a distant concept in my life. I’ve been married 30 years, raised 3 children, have 6 grandchildren, have pastored for 14 years, been in Apostolic Church for 32 years, and have read the Bible more times than I can count. I’ve suffered, rejoiced, fallen, risen, loved, hated, and have worked hard all of my life. God gives every man, Experience. Experience is our greatest teacher, and understanding comes to those who will endure the many years of everyday living.

Through Experience, we come to know the power and love of relationship. This is the most prominent part of a person; how they deal with people. Through love, patience, and much long suffering, we reap great knowledge concerning human compassion and mercy. We learn that those that come from our loins will always be our children. Even when they fail, we still love. Even when they hurt us, we still reach for them. And, never would we send them into Eternal Flames to suffer for the wrongs they’ve done in life. In the Bible, there are countless Scriptures that refer to God as our Father, and we His sons and daughters. We are able to compare God’s feeling for us through our earthly experience of Family.

Through History, we can analyze the past to see the downfalls of Societies, Religions, and Politics. We can see how people stood up with the Truth of Measurement, and how they were cast to the dogs of execution, imprisonment, and excommunication. History can also validate what God’s Chosen were taught. Nowhere in Jewish History before the New Testament, did the mainstay of Jewish society teach of such a place as Eternal Fire, where people would live in unending torment. This alone poses a huge problem, as suddenly this “Place” appears in more modern documents. If God determined this consequence or punishment for fallen mankind, it would have been known since the beginning. History would reveal a consistent pattern of something so brutal, but it doesn’t.

Science is beyond awesome, as we’ve come to learn things by the use of microscopes, x-rays, laboratories, telescopes, space travel, and so on. This allows us to verify; is the Earth flat or round? Does life begin in the womb? How can we conquer disease? How does the human body work? Is it possible to predict the weather? By Science, we can look at Religion to validate a hoax or Truth. I started a Thread on Noah’s Ark, revealing a scientific catastrophe that many have never considered. Food, water, animal waste, the ability of the Ark being able to even float, all this and more revealed a host of problems that we mustn’t ignore. Eternal Hell, in its scientific form is beyond sick. People wailing forever in flames and darkness, when measured, leaves even the worst of humanity as saints. I’m not even sure Hitler could stand by, listening to the screams of people in agony as they begged for deliverance into the eons of nothingness.

Common Sense is nothing more than simple sense. In my line of work there is what is called the Golden Rule. As an insurance agent, I’m required to use this common sense approach when advising my clients; what would I do for myself? This works, as I look across my desk when people are asking me what they should do to protect themselves. According to Scripture, God made man in His image. I believe we have a basic format in us that relates directly to our Creator. Mercy, love, forgiveness, and many other attributes were birthed in us by the One who made us. Looking at the Christian Hell, common sense in me does not understand why God would continue to allow man to propagate the Earth so the belly of Hell can be full. If mankind is truly that bad, this whole mess should have been done away with long ago.

When Jesus walked this Earth, consider these people; The Adulterous Woman, the Sinner smiting his breast, the Prodigal Son, the Woman at the well, the Thief on the cross, those who crucified Jesus (Father forgive them, for they know not what they do), the Demoniac, the Roman Centurion, the man left dead in the ditch by thieves. Everywhere you turn, you find Jesus extending mercy to the fallen and sick. Sorry, but I can’t imagine Jesus sending people over a cliff into this extreme chasm of Torture. It just doesn’t measure up. It’s not the same Jesus that was reaching to the dead, hungry, and lonely. It’s not the same Jesus who killed the fatted calf when the son came home. It’s not the same Jesus who reached into a grave and raised a dead man.

Eternal Damnation appears to be an onslaught of Interpretation/Translation error. I’ve attached a link at the bottom that reveals a host of problems concerning our current understanding of what Hell is via the Bible we use.

What happens after we die is a mystery. I don’t have a telephone to call God on, asking Him how things are going up there. The Jews of old went around and around over this. I’m honest, my take on the afterlife is uncertain, and I leave that to God. Everyone wants to live forever in peace, joy, love, and where we cry no more. But I’m not there yet, so I can’t say what it’s like. I want to be safe, so I admit my lack of understanding to the Lord. I cry, and ask Him to help me in my limited form and frame. I beat my chest daily, and I know I’m just a man.

I see this World as God’s doing. He made everything. And, He is well able to redeem the unredeemable.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/He...e_Forever.html

Very interesting and thoughtful. Many valid points that should be seriously considered.

Let me ask you this concerning heaven...the book of Revelation seems to be clear and detailed as to this subject. Where would you fit that book into this discussion?