What would you like to ask David Bernard?

[Justin]

My pastor invited me to a leadership meeting with a few other pastors in Michigan. Bro. Bernard was there. He opened with a summary of how he wants to lead the UPC and opened it up to a Q&A. I asked him about the merger, Fudge's book was discussed briefly, but from what I remember (I don't think it was recorded) but Bernard said that the majority of the PCI also believed in Acts 2:38 new birth for salvation, while the minority believed in "grace alone", (or salvation comes at repentance, then you get baptized and get the Holy Ghost, hence the first Pentecostal Herald article)

Beards were discussed also. Bernard doesn't have an issue with beards, he doesn't preach for them or against them.

I asked him about "accountability" regarding preachers in the UPC (Which was one of his highlights during his opening as why one should join the UPC). My example was a popular UPC evangelist misquoting multiple sources supporting a teaching, and not doing it just once on accident, but over and over again. He suggested reaching out to this preacher and conducting a round table to discuss this. He also said that if the teachings were continued, less and less people would invite said evangelist and it would eventually die out and take care of itself.

We spend about 30 minutes on beards, and about 5 minutes on preachers in the UPC not being held accountable.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Justin

My pastor invited me to a leadership meeting with a few other pastors in Michigan. Bro. Bernard was there. He opened with a summary of how he wants to lead the UPC and opened it up to a Q&A. I asked him about the merger, Fudge's book was discussed briefly, but from what I remember (I don't think it was recorded) but Bernard said that the majority of the PCI also believed in Acts 2:38 new birth for salvation, while the minority believed in "grace alone", (or salvation comes at repentance, then you get baptized and get the Holy Ghost, hence the first Pentecostal Herald article)

Beards were discussed also. Bernard doesn't have an issue with beards, he doesn't preach for them or against them.

I asked him about "accountability" regarding preachers in the UPC (Which was one of his highlights during his opening as why one should join the UPC). My example was a popular UPC evangelist misquoting multiple sources supporting a teaching, and not doing it just once on accident, but over and over again. He suggested reaching out to this preacher and conducting a round table to discuss this. He also said that if the teachings were continued, less and less people would invite said evangelist and it would eventually die out and take care of itself.

We spend about 30 minutes on beards, and about 5 minutes on preachers in the UPC not being held accountable.

So pretty much he said that accountability would take care of itself? i guess

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Justin

My pastor invited me to a leadership meeting with a few other pastors in Michigan. Bro. Bernard was there. He opened with a summary of how he wants to lead the UPC and opened it up to a Q&A. I asked him about the merger, Fudge's book was discussed briefly, but from what I remember (I don't think it was recorded) but Bernard said that the majority of the PCI also believed in Acts 2:38 new birth for salvation, while the minority believed in "grace alone", (or salvation comes at repentance, then you get baptized and get the Holy Ghost, hence the first Pentecostal Herald article)

Beards were discussed also. Bernard doesn't have an issue with beards, he doesn't preach for them or against them.

I asked him about "accountability" regarding preachers in the UPC (Which was one of his highlights during his opening as why one should join the UPC). My example was a popular UPC evangelist misquoting multiple sources supporting a teaching, and not doing it just once on accident, but over and over again. He suggested reaching out to this preacher and conducting a round table to discuss this. He also said that if the teachings were continued, less and less people would invite said evangelist and it would eventually die out and take care of itself.

We spend about 30 minutes on beards, and about 5 minutes on preachers in the UPC not being held accountable.

Justin,

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing this with us.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Justin

My pastor invited me to a leadership meeting with a few other pastors in Michigan. Bro. Bernard was there. He opened with a summary of how he wants to lead the UPC and opened it up to a Q&A. I asked him about the merger, Fudge's book was discussed briefly, but from what I remember (I don't think it was recorded) but Bernard said that the majority of the PCI also believed in Acts 2:38 new birth for salvation, while the minority believed in "grace alone", (or salvation comes at repentance, then you get baptized and get the Holy Ghost, hence the first Pentecostal Herald article)

Beards were discussed also. Bernard doesn't have an issue with beards, he doesn't preach for them or against them.

I asked him about "accountability" regarding preachers in the UPC (Which was one of his highlights during his opening as why one should join the UPC). My example was a popular UPC evangelist misquoting multiple sources supporting a teaching, and not doing it just once on accident, but over and over again. He suggested reaching out to this preacher and conducting a round table to discuss this. He also said that if the teachings were continued, less and less people would invite said evangelist and it would eventually die out and take care of itself.

We spend about 30 minutes on beards, and about 5 minutes on preachers in the UPC not being held accountable.

Some would dispute whether it was a PCI minority... But I think all agree there were many in both organizations that still treated other Christians (Trinitarian) as brothers and Sisters in the Lord.

How they reconciled that with their theology, differed, but even three steppers very often believed non OPs were not hellbound. I believe that is still the case in the pews today and I very often hear it expressed. In the pulpits, not so much, but even the Pupiteers over coffee generally speak another language entirely.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Some would dispute whether it was a PCI minority... But I think all agree there were many in both organizations that still treated other Christians (Trinitarian) as brothers and Sisters in the Lord.

How they reconciled that with their theology, differed, but even three steppers very often believed non OPs were not hellbound. I believe that is still the case in the pews today and I very often hear it expressed. In the pulpits, not so much, but even the Pupiteers over coffee generally speak another language entirely.

The PCI Manual is clear about the "grace" issue ("saved and then baptized) and in fact, this understanding carries over into the UPCI Manual's explanation of "Repentance."

I would like to push DKB on this matter. The whole isolationist agenda of "everybody's going to hell but us" was clearly NOT a part of the PCI's official and hence, majority position.

[seguidordejesus]

Originally Posted by Justin

My pastor invited me to a leadership meeting with a few other pastors in Michigan. Bro. Bernard was there. He opened with a summary of how he wants to lead the UPC and opened it up to a Q&A. I asked him about the merger, Fudge's book was discussed briefly, but from what I remember (I don't think it was recorded) but Bernard said that the majority of the PCI also believed in Acts 2:38 new birth for salvation, while the minority believed in "grace alone", (or salvation comes at repentance, then you get baptized and get the Holy Ghost, hence the first Pentecostal Herald article)

Beards were discussed also. Bernard doesn't have an issue with beards, he doesn't preach for them or against them.

I asked him about "accountability" regarding preachers in the UPC (Which was one of his highlights during his opening as why one should join the UPC). My example was a popular UPC evangelist misquoting multiple sources supporting a teaching, and not doing it just once on accident, but over and over again. He suggested reaching out to this preacher and conducting a round table to discuss this. He also said that if the teachings were continued, less and less people would invite said evangelist and it would eventually die out and take care of itself.

We spend about 30 minutes on beards, and about 5 minutes on preachers in the UPC not being held accountable.

Yes, we all know that beards are 6 times more important than accountability

[Maximilian]

Justin, was the "said evangelist" an HMH spokesperson?

I like how accountability is akin to market capitalism. Beautiful parallel. Takes care of itself... well, what do you do when it doesn't? How long do you let "the market" battle with false doctrine before you let it just "go away?"

Talking to a unbelieving relative today. Asked them about Jesus and faith. They were positive. Asked them about the church... they said this: "I really see church as another business. Some go into the retail business, and others go into the church business. From marketing down to push-for-profit, retention and selling people their 'merchandise' it just feels like an Amway meeting sometimes."

I appreciated his honesty. Interesting how Capitalism is the answer to Biblical accountability

[rabbiriley]

Originally Posted by Justin

My pastor invited me to a leadership meeting with a few other pastors in Michigan. Bro. Bernard was there. He opened with a summary of how he wants to lead the UPC and opened it up to a Q&A. I asked him about the merger, Fudge's book was discussed briefly, but from what I remember (I don't think it was recorded) but Bernard said that the majority of the PCI also believed in Acts 2:38 new birth for salvation, while the minority believed in "grace alone", (or salvation comes at repentance, then you get baptized and get the Holy Ghost, hence the first Pentecostal Herald article)

Beards were discussed also. Bernard doesn't have an issue with beards, he doesn't preach for them or against them.

I asked him about "accountability" regarding preachers in the UPC (Which was one of his highlights during his opening as why one should join the UPC). My example was a popular UPC evangelist misquoting multiple sources supporting a teaching, and not doing it just once on accident, but over and over again. He suggested reaching out to this preacher and conducting a round table to discuss this. He also said that if the teachings were continued, less and less people would invite said evangelist and it would eventually die out and take care of itself.

We spend about 30 minutes on beards, and about 5 minutes on preachers in the UPC not being held accountable.

Justin, (I was at that Q & A session). I don't know of DKB caught it, but I don't think the guy who was asking about facial hair was asking about facial hair, but rather it was about something else.

Facial hair is a "safe" zone in such discussion. However, the sermon the questionnaire was referring to where the preacher said "facial hair was wrong" was most likely (though I could be corrected) a reference to Scott Graham's "follow the stones" message back at Michigan District's Family Camp. ANd I don't actually think facial hair was ever mentioned in that message (though again, I could be reading way too much into things). But a lot of other issues were discussed during that message by Graham (there was even a post by someone about that message not too long ago).

Naturally, Bernard took the question too literally, but at the very least, if you remember how the question about facial hair was asked, it revolved around the biblical accuracy being in favor FOR facial hair as opposed to the bible being against facial hair (Bernard agreed with this point), and how it is ironic that in spite of the bible being more FOR facial hair, he would not be allowed to teach as so in conferences/camps, but yet any preacher can get up and preach against facial hair, and be applauded for it.


Naturally, I don't think it's too much of a leap to substitute any other issue in for facial hair in regards to that question. I was dismayed too about how your question got brushed aside, and facial hair was the focal point of the whole thing


The person who asked was one of the more popular pastors in our state/movement, so I do think he did have things riding on the lines in asking the question and thus may also explain it's neutrality.

[Esther]

Do you still speak Korean?