Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by rdp

What is there to "squirm out of" in the text that says "not with gold jewelry, pearls, or costly apparel"???????????????? Guess what Jeffrey, you don't even have to have the gift of interpretation to comprehend this one! Just turn there & read it for yourself...............

In the context of "Not with gold" what does he tell the women to wear instead (since you see this as clothing/fashion advice)?

I'll let you try again.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I'll let you try again.

Its stated prior to the statement, NOT With

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Its stated prior to the statement, NOT With

Actually some would say the NOT WITH/BUT WITH is the general exhortation, while the "Modest apparel" part is the subject being further defined.

After a few pointers to the men, Paul says and women, get in their with humility before God. We are having issues with some of you causing division and strutting your social status and wealth into the times of worship like it's a fashion show. Dress modestly -- not with your fancy gold and pearls, BUT WITH ______________________________.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by rdp

What is there to "squirm out of" in the text that says "not with gold jewelry, pearls, or costly apparel"???????????????? Guess what Jeffrey, you don't even have to have the gift of interpretation to comprehend this one! Just turn there & read it for yourself...............

RDP

Do you wear a suit to church? A tie? Dress shoes? White shirt? I know you have told us in earlier post. But there is a point her you are not getting. I don't care where you get your suit or tie, etc. Goodwill the second hand store, Payless shoe source for your shoes. They are all designed to represent costly apparel!!! Unless you wear $10 jeans from wall mart with a $15 polo shirt from the same (clean of course God wants us to be clean), you are a hypocrite. Requiring your wife to wear less than your require of yourself. Of course if your wife does not wear cheap clothes from wal mart the same applies. Whether you bought designer clothes from second hand stores or paid full price the spirit is still there, wearing costly apparel

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

RDP

Do you wear a suit to church? A tie? Dress shoes? White shirt? I know you have told us in earlier post. But there is a point her you are not getting. I don't care where you get your suit or tie, etc. Goodwill the second hand store, Payless shoe source for your shoes. They are all designed to represent costly apparel!!! Unless you wear $10 jeans from wall mart with a $15 polo shirt from the same (clean of course God wants us to be clean), you are a hypocrite. Requiring your wife to wear less than your require of yourself. Of course if your wife does not wear cheap clothes from wal mart the same applies. Whether you bought designer clothes from second hand stores or paid full price the spirit is still there, wearing costly apparel

Then you are defining what is cheap and what is costly.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Then you are defining what is cheap and what is costly.

You have a problem with that? RDP is doing the same by defining what he thinks is right and wrong. Jesus teaches us it is the spirit of the matter just as much if not more that the action. If I wear clothes that present me as being expensive even though I did not pay full price for them I am still trying to present myself as haveing paid full price. It is the spirit of the matter. Why do I feel the need to were a suit and tie, dress shoes, etc to go to church? When a clean pair of jeans cover me just the same with out the presentation that I went to Nordstums and bought clothing that cost a couple of hundred dollors?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

RDP

Do you wear a suit to church? A tie? Dress shoes? White shirt? I know you have told us in earlier post. But there is a point her you are not getting. I don't care where you get your suit or tie, etc. Goodwill the second hand store, Payless shoe source for your shoes. They are all designed to represent costly apparel!!! Unless you wear $10 jeans from wall mart with a $15 polo shirt from the same (clean of course God wants us to be clean), you are a hypocrite.

In fact, I doooo get my suits from Wal-Mart, & they're very conservative in nature [both financially & appearance wise]. So, as usual, try again! I'm not there to be a pretty boy [though it wouldn't be hard to do ], I'm there to see the people transformed into the image of Christ Jesus, delivered from vices, etc. When I pastored, I rarely even wore a tie...not that I'm against them, I just don't like to be encumbered by any thing when preaching.

Requiring your wife to wear less than your require of yourself. Of course if your wife does not wear cheap clothes from wal mart the same applies. Whether you bought designer clothes from second hand stores or paid full price the spirit is still there, wearing costly apparel

What you're doing here is an age old apologetical trick. You're simply searching for legalistical loopholes in an attempt to break continuity & justify your own worldliness. Even IF your assertions were true [& they aren't], inconsistency is not tantamount to invalidation.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I'll let you try again.

Why would I "try again" when you obviously couldn't answer my 1st response.

Isn't this fun Jeffrey! BTW, does your Mother know that you're on the grown-ups computer ?? Wipe the sweat off of your brow Jeffrey...I'm just kidding.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

You have a problem with that? RDP is doing the same by defining what he thinks is right and wrong. Jesus teaches us it is the spirit of the matter just as much if not more that the action. If I wear clothes that present me as being expensive even though I did not pay full price for them I am still trying to present myself as haveing paid full price. It is the spirit of the matter. Why do I feel the need to were a suit and tie, dress shoes, etc to go to church? When a clean pair of jeans cover me just the same with out the presentation that I went to Nordstums and bought clothing that cost a couple of hundred dollors?

I have a problem with you insensuating that a suite would is costly clothing when jeans can cost quite a bit themselves. Why not just go out and make a camel's hair garment like John the baptism. That would definitely show you weren't out to make an impression you are rich. There is a difference between looking presentable and having to wear costly apparel.

Now on the other hand suites CAN fall into costly apparel. I've heard of God convicting men about their costly suites. Just because its a suite, doesn't mean you are presented as wearing costly apparel.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I have a problem with you insensuating that a suite would is costly clothing when jeans can cost quite a bit themselves. Why not just go out and make a camel's hair garment like John the baptism. That would definitely show you weren't out to make an impression you are rich. There is a difference between looking presentable and having to wear costly apparel.

Now on the other hand suites CAN fall into costly apparel. I've heard of God convicting men about their costly suites. Just because its a suite, doesn't mean you are presented as wearing costly apparel.

You are right in a way but you are missing the point, and so is RDP, you can't see the forest for the trees. Jesus told the pharisee that they would strain at a nat and swallow a camel and that is what has happened. And inconsistency is tantamount to invalidation. That was the main problem with the pharisee. They were not consistant in keeping the law. Their own law was more important than the spirit of God's law. How many times did Jesus break the law of Moses? Or alow his diciples to. I can think of at least three times. Even Jesus own actions let us know that we are wrong to be so legalistic that we don't hear the voice of God over our own actions.


Paul talks about the gentiles that did not have the law but having a law of their own. The point is we may not claim to be under the law of Moses but we have formed a law of our own that does just what the writters of NT spoke against. And that of making the keeping of our own rules of more importance than the grace of God. Our own righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of God. Where is the middle road? Where do we let God's spirit lead us over mans doctrines. When do we quite pulling scripture out of context to preach our own doctrines of righteousnes and holiness and let each seek out their own salvation with fear and trembling? When will we get the message Paul is teaching us in Romans 14 some are convicted that some things are wrong others the same thing is ok. But God has accepted them, who are we to judge another mans servant?

Jesus did not say the world would know us because of the dress of clothes we do or don't wear. Whether we wear a modest amount jewels or gold or braid our hair or not. We are know by our love one for another. This is the comandment Jesus said if you love me you will keep. Do we truly show love one to another as described in I Cor. 13? Do we truly allow the fruit of the spirit to shine through us as described by Paul in Galations 5. Does the world see Jesus in our conversation or do they just see the standard required by the doctrines of each local assembley that can't seem to come to a unified agreement on what is wrong or right?