It is now global climate disruption

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by Ferd

pole switching is more in the hundred thousand year area...


I dont really like the "in geological time" argument. I wont be around then. however, i do have serious issues with bad science and all I have seen from the AGW crowd is really poor science and even worse hyperbole they pull out of it.

physics says CO2 causes mild warming. Not one shred of evidence suggests that mild warming will cause forcing that leads to extreme warming.

Don't believe so.

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/earth-magnetic-04a.html

http://www.psc.edu/science/glatzmaier.html

Either way, my point was that we are not going to drastically change the earth's atmosphere that much. It will happen fairly naturally, much like it has in the past.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Twisp

Don't believe so.

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/earth-magnetic-04a.html

http://www.psc.edu/science/glatzmaier.html

Either way, my point was that we are not going to drastically change the earth's atmosphere that much. It will happen fairly naturally, much like it has in the past.

Twispy is correct. Personally, I don't see how magnetic pole reversals can effect climate - unless the reversals are linked to solar activity such as a period of significant solar activity and warming. This is certainly nothing we can do anything about.

The thing that gets me about the "carbon debate" is that no one seems to be recognizing the obvious here (though I suspect Twisp does) - all of the carbon locked up in coal and petroleum used to be freely circulating in our atmosphere. So, what's "unnatural" about returning the carbon to the atmosphere where carbon based life can make use of it?

If we were "aliens" looking at life on earth and wanting to see what the effect of all this organic activity was - we would immediately be struck with the fact that life on earth is a huge carbon sink. All of the organisms on the planet interact in a system that sucks the free carbon out of the atmosphere and locks it up in the rocks of the earth.

Our "alien observers" would then see industrial humanity as a kind of "savior" for the planet because we are freeing up the carbon that doesn't recycle naturally.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Twisp

Don't believe so.

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/earth-magnetic-04a.html

http://www.psc.edu/science/glatzmaier.html

Either way, my point was that we are not going to drastically change the earth's atmosphere that much. It will happen fairly naturally, much like it has in the past.

interesting. we do however agree that by and large, the climate changes in natural cycles and our impact via CO2 is limited.

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by Ferd

interesting. we do however agree that by and large, the climate changes in natural cycles and our impact via CO2 is limited.

Definitely.

To me, our impact on nature is directly limited to mankind's future. If we scorch the earth with nuclear warheads on 10/15/2011, we will not be able to survive, but the earth will and some type of life will.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Twisp

Definitely.

To me, our impact on nature is directly limited to mankind's future. If we scorch the earth with nuclear warheads on 10/15/2011, we will not be able to survive, but the earth will and some type of life will.

I dont know why we dont spend more time and energy working on land use issues and the impact of cancer causing polutants from industry.


the real issues are being over looked because of an insane fixation on carbon dioxide.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Ferd

I dont know why we dont spend more time and energy working on land use issues and the impact of cancer causing polutants from industry.


the real issues are being over looked because of an insane fixation on carbon dioxide.

Research causes cancer. I have been in favor of clean planet and conservation most of all my life. Now we have DDT banned and millions of children dying from malaria and by solving one problem, we create another. The eco movement often hurts the people they claim to help.