Has Hell Disappeared?

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Fear makes some people look at their lives and realize they need a savior. Love draws them to God

It does for some, Prax. But God's message is I love YOU so much, I sent MY son to die for YOUR sins. Out of His great love, He draws us to Him. That does not mean however, that we can sin without consequences. I don't think Hell as most believe it to be, was made to scare people to God. Fear is torment in and of itself. You can't live for God and live in that kind of fear.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Cindy

It does for some, Prax. But God's message is I love YOU so much, I sent MY son to die for YOUR sins. Out of His great love, He draws us to Him. That does not mean however, that we can sin without consequences. I don't think Hell as most believe it to be, was made to scare people to God. Fear is torment in and of itself. You can't live for God and live in that kind of fear.

So wrong. Scripture speaks a lot about the fear of God. Most always in the sense of fright and alarm.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So wrong. Scripture speaks a lot about the fear of God. Most always in the sense of fright and alarm.

....which almost always is speaking of "Respect". Surely you're aware of that.

[geekette]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So wrong. Scripture speaks a lot about the fear of God. Most always in the sense of fright and alarm.

Again, preachers assume that everyone before them is in reasonably good mental health. However: You don't tell a person who has chronic depression with recurrent major depressive episodes about the fear of God over and over and over. It will send that person over the edge.

I know this from personal experience.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by geekette

Again, preachers assume that everyone before them is in reasonably good mental health. However: You don't tell a person who has chronic depression with recurrent major depressive episodes about the fear of God over and over and over. It will send that person over the edge.

I know this from personal experience.

Keep trumpeting this. The hell-fear-mongers need to hear this.

[geekette]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Keep trumpeting this. The hell-fear-mongers need to hear this.

They don't care. Really, they don't. The doctrine of hell is just too useful a cudgel to give up just because there might be people with mental illnesses in the congregation. And, on top of that, to so many of these preachers, mental illness is not an "illness," just something to pray through, and so it's minimized.

Even the nicest, most well-regarded preachers can have a blind spot when it comes to this. Last week I made the mistake of listening to a sermon podcast by a preacher who got his religious start in the UPCI back in the 1970s, and forty minutes into the sermon, he started going on about "grave danger" and "destruction." There were no out and out threats of hellfire, but it was enough to really depress me and made me cry for a few hours. I worked through the depression by writing my concerns to the preacher in an e-mail, and I did send it to him. I rather doubt I'll ever hear back, as he's quite popular, but I honestly do think he needed to know his sermon had rather a different effect than he no doubt intended.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by geekette

They don't care. Really, they don't. The doctrine of hell is just too useful a cudgel to give up just because there might be people with mental illnesses in the congregation. And, on top of that, to so many of these preachers, mental illness is not an "illness," just something to pray through, and so it's minimized.

Even the nicest, most well-regarded preachers can have a blind spot when it comes to this. Last week I made the mistake of listening to a sermon podcast by a preacher who got his religious start in the UPCI back in the 1970s, and forty minutes into the sermon, he started going on about "grave danger" and "destruction." There were no out and out threats of hellfire, but it was enough to really depress me and made me cry for a few hours. I worked through the depression by writing my concerns to the preacher in an e-mail, and I did send it to him. I rather doubt I'll ever hear back, as he's quite popular, but I honestly do think he needed to know his sermon had rather a different effect than he no doubt intended.

Good for you. I know that, for the most part, you're correct....the hell-fear-mongers don't care. But one of the great things about this forum is, it's not always the people who are participating in discussion, but quite often, it's the people who are reading and lurking, that are impacted by what is said. If your words can influence one, two, heck, maybe even three established ministers to consider the damage they're doing, as well as impact someone just starting, you could indirectly have an impact on thousands of people. Don't doubt the power of a spoken word, well-thought out, and evidence by your personal experience.

Sadly, hell is the ultimate ace up the sleeve that many resort to to get people to do what they want. But I can honestly say that in two-plus decades of ministry I have never threatened anyone with hell in public speaking or personally. And I've seen hundreds of lives transformed and none of it was done with fear tactics. So change CAN happen without hellish manipulation.

Keep talking, Geekette!

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by geekette

They don't care. Really, they don't. The doctrine of hell is just too useful a cudgel to give up just because there might be people with mental illnesses in the congregation. And, on top of that, to so many of these preachers, mental illness is not an "illness," just something to pray through, and so it's minimized.

Even the nicest, most well-regarded preachers can have a blind spot when it comes to this. Last week I made the mistake of listening to a sermon podcast by a preacher who got his religious start in the UPCI back in the 1970s, and forty minutes into the sermon, he started going on about "grave danger" and "destruction." There were no out and out threats of hellfire, but it was enough to really depress me and made me cry for a few hours. I worked through the depression by writing my concerns to the preacher in an e-mail, and I did send it to him. I rather doubt I'll ever hear back, as he's quite popular, but I honestly do think he needed to know his sermon had rather a different effect than he no doubt intended.

No offense but listening to that made you cry for hours and depressed? Just from a tape?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

No offense but listening to that made you cry for hours and depressed? Just from a tape?

Why would you question this? You've heard of "triggers" haven't you? Something in the sermon apparently triggered memories/feelings from something that had happened to her.

[geekette]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

No offense but listening to that made you cry for hours and depressed? Just from a tape?

Yes. *shrug* I have a diagnosis of chronic major depression and some things just set it off. Telling people that if they don't accept Jesus, even in the nicest of ways, that they're staring down at grave danger and destruction, is just about guaranteed to cause a problem. No, I had NO idea this guy did this when I started listening to his sermon. He's funny and engaging. I can see why he's very popular. The changeover was something of a surprise.