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10-20-2010, 10:10 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Re: Acts 2:38
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Originally Posted by Jason Badejo
Nope. Saved souls weren't asking "now what" in Acts 2:37. Convicted souls, yes. Saved souls, no. |
That would be my view as well. Whether justification occurs at the time of sincere calling on the Lord in repentance is another question though.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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10-20-2010, 10:13 PM
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Strange in a Strange Land...
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Re: Acts 2:38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
That would be my view as well. Whether justification occurs at the time of sincere calling on the Lord in repentance is another question though.
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I gave my point of view on it above.
__________________
"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
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10-20-2010, 10:39 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Re: Acts 2:38
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTULLOCK
I gave my point of view on it above.
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Well I did read that, but am not convinced that being "pierced their heart" is evidence they received the Holy Spirit.
Similarly when Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" it's not evidence of the indwelling Spirit. I would say it is indeed evidence of the Spirit convicting, working on hearts - yes. A necessary precursor to salvation but perhaps not evidence of existing salvation.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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10-20-2010, 10:47 PM
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Strange in a Strange Land...
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Re: Acts 2:38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Well I did read that, but am not convinced that being "pierced their heart" is evidence they received the Holy Spirit.
Similarly when Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" it's not evidence of the indwelling Spirit. I would say it is indeed evidence of the Spirit convicting, working on hearts - yes. A necessary precursor to salvation but perhaps not evidence of existing salvation.
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I guess it comes down to how one sees it or chooses to see it. But on the other hand it is not evidence that the Spirit didn't begin to dwell in them. The deal about Agrippa was that we wasn't persuaded to be a christian had he been then he would have faired similar to those in Acts 2, IMO.
__________________
"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
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10-20-2010, 11:31 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Re: Acts 2:38
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTULLOCK
I guess it comes down to how one sees it or chooses to see it. But on the other hand it is not evidence that the Spirit didn't begin to dwell in them. The deal about Agrippa was that we wasn't persuaded to be a christian had he been then he would have faired similar to those in Acts 2, IMO. |
Had Agrippa been convinced he would have followed through, repented, submitted to baptism, and received the Spirit for sure.
To me it seems a little silly to determine the exact second one is converted... It is made important by some who cannot see the validity of the Acts 2:38 experience of anyone except OPs.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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10-20-2010, 11:52 PM
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Strange in a Strange Land...
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Re: Acts 2:38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Had Agrippa been convinced he would have followed through, repented, submitted to baptism, and received the Spirit for sure.
To me it seems a little silly to determine the exact second one is converted... It is made important by some who cannot see the validity of the Acts 2:38 experience of anyone except OPs. |
To determine the exact moment one is saved is kinda petty no matter whether it is via Acts 2 or otherwise because we aren't saved until we get there.
If Agrippa were conveinced he would have converted, but since he didn't it is safe to say that he was not saved at that moment at least. His conversion would mostlikely been Acts 2:21 and not of tongues and baptism to make you saved.
__________________
"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
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10-21-2010, 10:49 AM
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Jesus' Name Pentecostal
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Re: Acts 2:38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Well I did read that, but am not convinced that being "pierced their heart" is evidence they received the Holy Spirit.
Similarly when Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" it's not evidence of the indwelling Spirit. I would say it is indeed evidence of the Spirit convicting, working on hearts - yes. A necessary precursor to salvation but perhaps not evidence of existing salvation.
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The old fashioned Pentecostal term for that would be "under conviction"
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10-21-2010, 08:21 PM
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Saved by Grace
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Decatur, TX
Posts: 5,247
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Re: Acts 2:38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
That would be my view as well. Whether justification occurs at the time of sincere calling on the Lord in repentance is another question though.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Well I did read that, but am not convinced that being "pierced their heart" is evidence they received the Holy Spirit.
Similarly when Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" it's not evidence of the indwelling Spirit. I would say it is indeed evidence of the Spirit convicting, working on hearts - yes. A necessary precursor to salvation but perhaps not evidence of existing salvation.
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Correct. There is quite a difference between conviction and repentance. In fact there is quite a difference between belief, and simple faith.
No doubt many sinners have believed what was preached to them, however their refusal to repent (which Jesus said is merely because they love darkness rather than light- John 3) is evidence that there is more to salvation than conviction. There is a difference between dead faith and saving faith.
The reason we know that these people possesd true faith is because they acted upon their faith as we see beggining in verse 41 through the remainder of the chapter.
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
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10-21-2010, 08:27 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Re: Acts 2:38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Badejo
Correct. There is quite a difference between conviction and repentance. In fact there is quite a difference between belief, and simple faith.
No doubt many sinners have believed what was preached to them, however their refusal to repent (which Jesus said is merely because they love darkness rather than light- John 3) is evidence that there is more to salvation than conviction. There is a difference between dead faith and saving faith.
The reason we know that these people possesd true faith is because they acted upon their faith as we see beggining in verse 41 through the remainder of the chapter. |
Bingo. Another reason why it's unfair to say (as many do) "even the devil believes, therefore it's not enough"... The devil does not have saving faith at all, not to mention Saving Faith will produce further continuing evidences.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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10-21-2010, 08:30 PM
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Saved by Grace
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Decatur, TX
Posts: 5,247
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Re: Acts 2:38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Bingo. Another reason why it's unfair to say (as many do) "even the devil believes, therefore it's not enough"... The devil does not have saving faith at all, not to mention Saving Faith will produce further continuing evidences.
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I think we're "seeing eye to eye" on this one. 
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
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