Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Nope, certainly no prosperity gospel. And...no "Power of positive thinking", either. It's "Possibility Thinking."

Things have been rough since two things....since Schluer's son was ousted and since the economy went in the tank. Schuler's daughter is now the senior pastor and honestly, the program is tough to watch now. It's obvious she has some charismatic leanings and it just doesn't jive with the culture of the glass cathedral.

I've long admired the senior Schuler. Take a look at the "Possibility Thinker's Creed":

When faced with a mountain,
I WILL NOT QUIT!

I will keep on striving
until
I climb over,
find a pass through,
tunnel underneath,

or

simply stay
and
turn the mountain
into a gold mine
with
God's help!!

This kind of "almost sounds right" stuff is what can snare honest-hearted immature seekers into resenting God if their much-repeated petitions go unfullfilled.

We are led, we do not lead God.
Consider how Satan tempted Jesus to evoke action from heaven, Jesus' response..."It is written, thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God" [Mt 4:7 or Lk 4:12]

Faith comes by hearing. Faith is NOT the product of conjuring up a good idea and wishing really, really hard...without ceasing.

Are we tempting God? Is presumption a quality that God rewards? NO! Faith is a response (an AMEN) to a heavenly utterance (an unseen evidence). Ourhope is established upon the fact that you have been witness to its certainty on earth because it is already established in heavenly places.

Human diligence CAN PRODUCE stuff. Just look at all the 100-600 person assemblies that are able to support 3-4 FT employment lines, 2-3 vehicles, 1-2 buses, 1250/mo. utilities and a $700K mortgage.

...

Jesus provided a clear witness of the operation of Faith:

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me" [Jn 5:30]

"And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. " [12:50]

Jn 8:28-30

Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [he], and [that] I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

A similar witness as Jesus' prayer to his heavenly father in Jn 17 includes:

"For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received [them], and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me."

Please note: I believe we should be faithful in matters concerning UNRIGHTEOUS MAMMON, but the purpose of this is to train us with a lifestyle that will enable us to be good stewards of righteousness.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by tbpew

This kind of "almost sounds right" stuff is what can snare honest-hearted immature seekers into resenting God if their much-repeated petitions go unfullfilled.

We are led, we do not lead God.
Consider how Satan tempted Jesus to evoke action from heaven, Jesus' response..."It is written, thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God" [Mt 4:7 or Lk 4:12]

Faith comes by hearing. Faith is NOT the product of conjuring up a good idea and wishing really, really hard...without ceasing.

Are we tempting God? Is presumption a quality that God rewards? NO! Faith is a response (an AMEN) to a heavenly utterance (an unseen evidence). Ourhope is established upon the fact that you have been witness to its certainty on earth because it is already established in heavenly places.

Human diligence CAN PRODUCE stuff. Just look at all the 100-600 person assemblies that are able to support 3-4 FT employment lines, 2-3 vehicles, 1-2 buses, 1250/mo. utilities and a $700K mortgage.

...

Jesus provided a clear witness of the operation of Faith:

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me" [Jn 5:30]

"And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. " [12:50]

Jn 8:28-30

Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [he], and [that] I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

A similar witness as Jesus' prayer to his heavenly father in Jn 17 includes:

"For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received [them], and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me."

Please note: I believe we should be faithful in matters concerning UNRIGHTEOUS MAMMON, but the purpose of this is to train us with a lifestyle that will enable us to be good stewards of righteousness.

How in the heck did you get all THAT from the Possibility Thinker's Creed???? Little bit of a stretch, don'tchathink?

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by notofworks

How in the heck did you get all THAT from the Possibility Thinker's Creed???? Little bit of a stretch, don'tchathink?

notworks,
If you can dream it, is God obligated to step in and do it? Is that his plan and purpose for building his own church?

Is faith in action a process where niffy helpful ideas are embarked upon and then asking for God to join you to enable them to come to pass?

I am confident that if you set your mind to it, you could build a really awesome tower that is the highest one in your town without any help from God.

My whole point is that folks can set out and do a bunch-o-stuff without having received any clear word that God is the one ordering the steps. If a child of God is lead by the Spirit of God, then wishing (even really repetious wishing) is not of godly origin.

There are so many works that we can be a part of that are "NotofGod" but do generate a lot of activity and help to keep a group together. My caution involves folks who "dream of possibilities" and set out to make recruits without being established upon the utterance of God in our spirit. These may find a pit of depair and resentment is being dug. Despite the praises from those who look on the outward appearances of things declaring how much is happening, the vainty of human endeavor causes a lot of former zealots to doubt God when they should be doubting the teacher of the possibilty they followed.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by tbpew

notworks,
If you can dream it, is God obligated to step in and do it? Is that his plan and purpose for building his own church?

Is faith having niffy helpful ideas and then asking for God to join you to enable them to come to pass?

I am confident that if you set your mind to it, you could build a really awesome tower that is the highest one in your town without any help from God.

My whole point is that folks can set out and do a bunch-o-stuff without having received any clear word that God is the one ordering the steps. If a child of God is lead by the Spirit of God, then wishing (even really repetious wishing) is not of godly origin.

There are so many works that we can be a part of that are "NotofGod" but do generate a lot of activity and helps keep a group together. My caution involves folks who "dream of possibilities" and set out to make recruits without being established upon the utterance of God in our spirits, a pit of depair and resentment is being dug although, for those who look on the outward appearances, things are happening!

Where is THAT in the Possibility Thinker's Creed??? You're making stuff up.

Has anyone ever accomplished something they thought impossible? Have they even tried? He's just saying, "All things are possible."

Somebody else said that, now...who was it? Let's see....Oh yeah, Jesus said that.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Where is THAT in the Possibility Thinker's Creed??? You're making stuff up.

Has anyone ever accomplished something they thought impossible? Have they even tried? He's just saying, "All things are possible."

Somebody else said that, now...who was it? Let's see....Oh yeah, Jesus said that.

Conditioned upon:
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Ignoring pre-requiste conditions is often a plague among immature dreamers who must confront chronic frustration.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by tbpew

Conditioned upon:
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Ignoring pre-requiste conditions is often a plague among immature dreamers who must confront chronic frustration.

I don't know if I am wandering off subject here or not but I recently taught about prayer in my sunday school class. We went over the instructions for prayer given by Jesus and we noted that there isn't much in there about our needs beyond our daily bread.

I think that prayer is supposed to be a time of us focusing on Him. The prayer example given seems to stay focused on the Kingdom and my ability to find my place in it and to do His will. But, for most people, prayer is just a laundry list of wants & needs. We do bring petitions before God but prayer should be about Him, us focusing on Him, His Kingdom.

But our worship is made after our own style... our prayers are about our needs...

All the things that should be focusing us on Him are turned around to, once again, please our own flesh.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by tbpew

Conditioned upon:
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Ignoring pre-requiste conditions is often a plague among immature dreamers who must confront chronic frustration.

You're applying things to them they never say!! You're not quoting them on anything, merely assigning doctrine to them they don't preach. You're, very simply, making this stuff up. Not fair.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by tbpew

...
If you can dream it,
...
.

If you can conceive it and believe it then you can receive it or achieve it.

The late Kenneth Hagin said, "You can have what you say, if you say what God says" or something like that.

[Sam]

I was not a fan or follower of the Crystal Cathedral.
I have watched a few broadcasts but that was many years ago.
The broadcast I enjoyed the most was a re-run of the late Bishop Sheen.
Most of you may have no idea who he was.
Fulton John Sheen, born Peter John Sheen (May 8, 1895 – December 9, 1979) was an American archbishop of the Roman Catholic Church known for his preaching and especially his work on television and radio.
He had a television show back in the days of black and white tv.
Well, he spoke at the Crystal Cathedral some time back and I happened to see a re-broadcast of his sermon. It was in black and white. I thought it was a good presentation of the Gospel. He even gave an "invitation" or "altar call" at the end of it.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Sam

If you can conceive it and believe it then you can receive it or achieve it.

The late Kenneth Hagin said, "You can have what you say, if you say what God says" or something like that.

If my voice is the vehicle to manifest God's purpose within creation....AMEN, the words spoken will NOT return void, they will accomplish their task because of the potentcy of the author--not the scribe/vessel that manifests them.

name it and claim it offers no such prerequiste as the one you are indicating Hagin included...."if you say what God says".

If something only works 2 out of 10 times, 7 out of 10 times, etc...the author is not God, no matter how nice or helpful the thing may be.