Why Is The "Christmas Spirit" So Different?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I used to be in the not-celebrate-Christmas thing, but realized it was somewhat hooey. No offence intended. All these pagan accusations are really moot today. No one views Christmas as a pagan act in honouring false gods. When the heart intends nothing towards any false god, but simply having a fun time with friends and family, God does not judge us for worshiping false gods by having fun. He knows the intents of the heart.

Y'all who refuse to celebrate Christmas need to leave that concept and simply enjoy the time as a time with family and friends and presents!

My two cents' worth. lol

You are saying that those of us who do not celebrate the holiday need to no longer hold to... or leave... the concept? We need to cease our refraining from the holiday?

It seems that is what you are saying but I want to clarify.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

You are saying that those of us who do not celebrate the holiday need to no longer hold to... or leave... the concept? We need to cease our refraining from the holiday?

It seems that is what you are saying but I want to clarify.

I am just saying that if one is refraining from it due to pagan origins, one should not refrain since the pagan origin is not an issue when the intentions of people enjoying the day are simply to have fun with family and friends. I am saying if people think God is looking down on them for christmas trees and gifts, because some ancient rites started that trend, when in reality the people today are not intending any worship to any false god, they are wrong in thinking God is looking down on them for this.

It is not a holy-day (holiday), but simply a time of gifts and fun with my family. I think it's a shame people rob their families of this. I think it is extreme legalism to say we should not reach down and put a gift beneath a christmas tree, when all we are intending is to leave a gift for someone, just because it looks like we're bowing down to an idol. If I speak the word "Monday" on the second day of the week, and do not intend to be honouring any moon god on that day, but just entitling that twenty four hour period by the common title, that is no different than reaching down and putting a gift beneath a christmas tree and not intended any sacrifice to any tree idol. God sees the intents of the heart and knows if it is false worship or not.

How more legalistic can one get than by saying the outward similarity of an action of worship, done without an ounce of intention for any such worship, is judged by God as false worship?

If that is not your concept, then my thoughts do not apply to you.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I am just saying that if one is refraining from it due to pagan origins, one should not refrain since the pagan origin is not an issue when the intentions of people enjoying the day are simply to have fun with family and friends. I am saying if people think God is looking down on them for christmas trees and gifts, because some ancient rites started that trend, when in reality the people today are not intending any worship to any false god, they are wrong in thinking God is looking down on them for this.

It is not a holy-day (holiday), but simply a time of gifts and fun with my family. I think it's a shame people rob their families of this. I think it is extreme legalism to say we should not reach down and put a gift beneath a christmas tree, when all we are intending is to leave a gift for someone, just because it looks like we're bowing down to an idol. If I speak the word "Monday" on the second day of the week, and do not intend to be honouring any moon god on that day, but just entitling that twenty four hour period by the common title, that is no different than reaching down and putting a gift beneath a christmas tree and not intended any sacrifice to any tree idol. God sees the intents of the heart and knows if it is false worship or not.

How more legalistic can one get than by saying the outward similarity of an action of worship, done without an ounce of intention for any such worship, is judged by God as false worship?

If that is not your concept, then my thoughts do not apply to you.

One can have idolatry without conscious intent. Ever met someone whose car was their idol? They never bow to it saying oh car i worship thee.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

One can have idolatry without conscious intent. Ever met someone whose car was their idol? They never bow to it saying oh car i worship thee.

Making a car an idol is consciously adoring something. That is apples and oranges to enjoying gift giving. No one is worshiping anything when they give gifts at Christmas and decorate their homes, compared to idolizing a car. Putting a gift beneath a tree is nothing like worship. It is placing a box where people expect to retrieve them and open them. lol How is THAT anything similar to idolizing a car?

[mfblume]

I said, "If I speak the word "Monday" on the second day of the week, and do not intend to be honouring any moon god on that day, but just entitling that twenty four hour period by the common title, that is no different than reaching down and putting a gift beneath a christmas tree and not intended any sacrifice to any tree idol. God sees the intents of the heart and knows if it is false worship or not." Let me clarify that. Hollering the name of the MOON on the second day of the week was honouring the moon god in ancient times on MONDAY. Does that mean hollering the word "MONDAY" on Monday means we are worshiping the moon god simply because we are doing something SIMILAR to what they did in false worship? No. By the same token it is not bowing in worship of an idol just because we lean down and put a gift beneath a decorated tree. What's the difference?

Anyway, y'all can think what you want.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I said, "If I speak the word "Monday" on the second day of the week, and do not intend to be honouring any moon god on that day, but just entitling that twenty four hour period by the common title, that is no different than reaching down and putting a gift beneath a christmas tree and not intended any sacrifice to any tree idol. God sees the intents of the heart and knows if it is false worship or not." Let me clarify that. Hollering the name of the MOON on the second day of the week was honouring the moon god in ancient times on MONDAY. Does that mean hollering the word "MONDAY" on Monday means we are worshiping the moon god simply because we are doing something SIMILAR to what they did in false worship? No. By the same token it is not bowing in worship of an idol just because we lean down and put a gift beneath a decorated tree. What's the difference?

Anyway, y'all can think what you want.

Days of the weak is such a weak defense, we can't help the name of the days of the week, but we don't have to partake of pagan customs.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Days of the weak is such a weak defense, we can't help the name of the days of the week, but we don't have to partake of pagan customs.

Same principle all around. So you are saying that what we cannot help, we do not have to deal with, despite identical pagan origins? THAT is inconsistent, I think.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Making a car an idol is consciously adoring something. That is apples and oranges to enjoying gift giving. No one is worshiping anything when they give gifts at Christmas and decorate their homes, compared to idolizing a car. Putting a gift beneath a tree is nothing like worship. It is placing a box where people expect to retrieve them and open them. lol How is THAT anything similar to idolizing a car?

Point being there's no intent to worshop the car. Remember, it's not idolatory if no intent as you say.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by mfblume

If that is not your concept, then my thoughts do not apply to you.

Okay... thanks.

I am an odd cookie in the realm of non christmas practicing Christians. I have never attended a church that preached against christmas in my life and I participated in the holiday until my early 30's. My eldest daughter had her last christmas when she was 2 years old. My other 2 have never participated in the holiday.

The interesting thing, to me, is that when my daughter was 2 and Christmas was nearing my wife and I had been so busy writing, producing & putting on the Christmas play at the church that we had not found the time to buy a tree and it was December 24th. We finally decided that, even at that late hour, we would see if we could find a tree.

We did... and we decorated it etc and at the behest of my MIL who told us we'd better go out and get that baby some presents... we did so. (She didn't show much interest in the presents but she did LOVE the cardboard boxes they came in. )

As I stated I had never been in a church that preached against christmas. I had always celebrated christmas and had never had a thought in my mind that we should do anything but celebrate christmas.

That evening as we sat in our living room with the lights out, music playing and the christmas lights blinking I uttered a phrase so matter of factly that it really escaped our notice at that time. I sat there and said "Someday this will be as wrong for us as halloween is today."

That was our last Christmas. A series of circumstances began to come into motion beginning in February of the next year that led to us never picking up the practice again. I have to admit that in the infancy of my conviction the pagan origins were the basis that I focused on. There was a need built in that it be a sin... and wrong... because in Christianity we don't hold convictions that won't send us to hell. We do everything that doesn't send us to hell.

But over the years my conviction and love for the conviction has grown, deepened and centered itself to where I am today.

I am free. (Please... no one need to make a comment on that... this is just a statement of how I feel)

When I watch the chaos and madness of the season I am increasingly glad the hold on me is no longer there. It is frustrating that you can't go buy a wrench because of the huge masses of people and I can't even listen to good ole contemporary christian music on the way there.

My parents fought me tooth & toe nail but now state that I couldn't drag them back kicking and screaming. I am thankful for the freedom we have from the craziness that is inherent with the celebration. I get together with my family because we all have time off. I also get together with them in the summer some time and we always have fun... it's just the result of family getting together.

Some people used to smoke cigarettes and if they say "I am free" it isn't because they don't smoke anymore. It is because they don't smoke anymore AND they don't want to smoke anymore.

If one doesn't smoke anymore and yet still want to smoke... they are smoke free... but they aren't yet free. People who refrain from celebrating and yet still yearn to celebrate will seldom ever be free.

They may be free from certain practices.
They may be free from created unnecessary debt.
They may be free from a list of required gift giving.

But until one is free from the desire... one is never free.

I repeat... I am free. And it is a wonderful feeling.

I don't require anyone else follow in my footsteps and I don't condemn those who don't follow in my footsteps. God led me here. Not man... not condemnation... not even hell, fire & brimstone preaching.

And as I look around I have to give Him thanks because this is a beautiful place where I reside and I could have never, ever found it on my own.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Okay... thanks.

I am an odd cookie in the realm of non christmas practicing Christians. I have never attended a church that preached against christmas in my life and I participated in the holiday until my early 30's. My eldest daughter had her last christmas when she was 2 years old. My other 2 have never participated in the holiday.

The interesting thing, to me, is that when my daughter was 2 and Christmas was nearing my wife and I had been so busy writing, producing & putting on the Christmas play at the church that we had not found the time to buy a tree and it was December 24th. We finally decided that, even at that late hour, we would see if we could find a tree.

We did... and we decorated it etc and at the behest of my MIL who told us we'd better go out and get that baby some presents... we did so. (She didn't show much interest in the presents but she did LOVE the cardboard boxes they came in. )

As I stated I had never been in a church that preached against christmas. I had always celebrated christmas and had never had a thought in my mind that we should do anything but celebrate christmas.

That evening as we sat in our living room with the lights out, music playing and the christmas lights blinking I uttered a phrase so matter of factly that it really escaped our notice at that time. I sat there and said "Someday this will be as wrong for us as halloween is today."

That was our last Christmas. A series of circumstances began to come into motion beginning in February of the next year that led to us never picking up the practice again. I have to admit that in the infancy of my conviction the pagan origins were the basis that I focused on. There was a need built in that it be a sin... and wrong... because in Christianity we don't hold convictions that won't send us to hell. We do everything that doesn't send us to hell.

But over the years my conviction and love for the conviction has grown, deepened and centered itself to where I am today.

I am free. (Please... no one need to make a comment on that... this is just a statement of how I feel)

When I watch the chaos and madness of the season I am increasingly glad the hold on me is no longer there. It is frustrating that you can't go buy a wrench because of the huge masses of people and I can't even listen to good ole contemporary christian music on the way there.

My parents fought me tooth & toe nail but now state that I couldn't drag them back kicking and screaming. I am thankful for the freedom we have from the craziness that is inherent with the celebration. I get together with my family because we all have time off. I also get together with them in the summer some time and we always have fun... it's just the result of family getting together.

Some people used to smoke cigarettes and if they say "I am free" it isn't because they don't smoke anymore. It is because they don't smoke anymore AND they don't want to smoke anymore.

If one doesn't smoke anymore and yet still want to smoke... they are smoke free... but they aren't yet free. People who refrain from celebrating and yet still yearn to celebrate will seldom ever be free.

They may be free from certain practices.
They may be free from created unnecessary debt.
They may be free from a list of required gift giving.

But until one is free from the desire... one is never free.

I repeat... I am free. And it is a wonderful feeling.

I don't require anyone else follow in my footsteps and I don't condemn those who don't follow in my footsteps. God led me here. Not man... not condemnation... not even hell, fire & brimstone preaching.

And as I look around I have to give Him thanks because this is a beautiful place where I reside and I could have never, ever found it on my own.

Great post. It is interesting some will stand against halloween but celebrate christmas.