Revelation 18

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

As for the identity of the Two Witnesses, the Bible tells us quite a bit.

They aren't just witnesses, but "My" witnesses, that is, God's. Whom does God say are His witnesses?

Isaiah 43:10, 43:12, and 44:8 specify that the sons of Jacob are God's witnesses in this world as to His Sovereignty and Lordship.

The sons of Jacob consisted of two Houses: The House of Judah, consisting of the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin and some of Levi, and the House of Israel, consisting of the other ten tribes led by Ephraim. And thus the House of Israel was also called Ephraim, and Joseph, after the predominant tribe, just as the House of Judah was called Judah after its predominant tribe.

The Two Houses were to be joined together as one under Messiah. The Two Witnesses are new covenant witnesses (as per the context of Revelation and the NT, because apart from Christ one is not a witness for God).

The reuniting of both Houses under Messiah to proclaim His truth to the nations is a major theme in Bible prophecy, both old and new testaments.

Jeremiah 11:16 calls Judah God's planted "green olive tree". Since God also planted the House of Israel, they too would be one of God's "olive trees". Thus God's two olive trees connected with being a witness to Him.

In Zechariah, the seer has a vision of a candlestick, and two olive trees on either side of it. The candlestick is essentially a menorah, seven lamped, and represents the light of God's truth. The two olive trees are witnesses of God's truth, and the oil that supplies the candlestick so it may be lit and give light originates from the olive trees. Thus the anointing OIL that is in the olive trees is the anointing upon the two witnesses by means of which the light of God's Word and Truth shines forth in this world.

The two anointed ones are the Houses of Israel and Judah, as it written in Psalm 105, where the people of God are identified as Jehovah's anointed. Anointing is for priesthood, and kingship. As Israel was called to be a kingdom of priests (Ex 19:6), and as the two Houses were together Jehovah's Dominion (kingship) and Sanctuary (priesthood) in this earth - Psalm 114:1-2.

The House of Israel was divorced by God for their idolatries and declared to not be His people (Hosea 1:9). This made them "gentiles". But they were prophesied to one day be called "sons of the living God" (Hosea 1:10) and would be joined together with Judah under Messiah (Hosea 1:11) as one people. Paul said this was being fulfilled in his day (Romans 9:25-26).

So the Two Witnesses are an apocalyptic representation of New Covenant Israel speaking forth the Word of God and pronouncing the Divine Judgments of God upon the heathen. They are two Houses, olive trees, planted by God, anointed as kings and priests by identification with Christ their Priest-King, representing God to an unbelieving world.

I see the heathen as those who rejected Christ.

Those who rejected the apostles teachings.

Those who killed all who were sent to the vineyard, and finally cast out the son to murder Him.

[Esaias]

So... that's that, I guess?

lol

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So... that's that, I guess?

lol

Is the church included? Dont leave us out we have been grafted in. Are we a part of the olive tree.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Is the church included? Dont leave us out we have been grafted in. Are we a part of the olive tree.

New covenant Israel is the church, and vice versa. Anyone else (besides Israelites) who exercises faith can also enter the new covenant (Isaiah 56:8).

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Esaias

New covenant Israel is the church, and vice versa. Anyone else (besides Israelites) who exercises faith can also enter the new covenant (Isaiah 56:8).

what do you mean "besides Israelites"?
so is the church the two witnesses?
or are the two witnesses the church and a future believing group of Jews?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Is the church included? Dont leave us out we have been grafted in. Are we a part of the olive tree.

Wanted to respond a bit more in depth. The church is God's ecclesia, or qahal, congregation. That congregation is Israel, and is composed of the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israelites, all 12 tribes). Ten of those tribes were divorced and cut off in the 8th century BC or thereabouts, and scattered from Palestine by the Assyrians. They were Biblically now "gentiles". These gentiles increased in number and spread abroad. Eventually, they were rejoined with the believing remnant of Judah by faith in Messiah. Or, at least many of them were. These are the "gentiles" and "Greeks" of the New Testament, with but few exceptions (usually stated in the text).

As Isaiah and other OT scriptures indicate, Israel's mission was and is to bring the knowledge of God to ALL nations, tribes, families, tongues, etc. Under both the Old (Mosaic) Covenant and the New (Messianic) Covenant, people of all nations, tribes, families, languages etc were and are being joined to Israel under the headship of Messiah.

Unfortunately, when most people hear or read about Israel, Israelites, etc they automatically think "Jews", and automatically think of the people TODAY known as Jews. But those are all very different terms with very different meanings. Likewise, when they read or hear "gentiles" they assume it means "anyone not descended from Jacob", and apply it to all modern non-Jews. These errors lead to other errors, compounding as one goes.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

what do you mean "besides Israelites"?
so is the church the two witnesses?
or are the two witnesses the church and a future believing group of Jews?

I posted a response before I read this, and I think it addresses the gist of your question:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Wanted to respond a bit more in depth. The church is God's ecclesia, or qahal, congregation. That congregation is Israel, and is composed of the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israelites, all 12 tribes). Ten of those tribes were divorced and cut off in the 8th century BC or thereabouts, and scattered from Palestine by the Assyrians. They were Biblically now "gentiles". These gentiles increased in number and spread abroad. Eventually, they were rejoined with the believing remnant of Judah by faith in Messiah. Or, at least many of them were. These are the "gentiles" and "Greeks" of the New Testament, with but few exceptions (usually stated in the text).

As Isaiah and other OT scriptures indicate, Israel's mission was and is to bring the knowledge of God to ALL nations, tribes, families, tongues, etc. Under both the Old (Mosaic) Covenant and the New (Messianic) Covenant, people of all nations, tribes, families, languages etc were and are being joined to Israel under the headship of Messiah.

Unfortunately, when most people hear or read about Israel, Israelites, etc they automatically think "Jews", and automatically think of the people TODAY known as Jews. But those are all very different terms with very different meanings. Likewise, when they read or hear "gentiles" they assume it means "anyone not descended from Jacob", and apply it to all modern non-Jews. These errors lead to other errors, compounding as one goes.

So, to summarize, the two witnesses are the church, and the church is the reunited Houses of Israel and Judah in Christ (along with anyone else who obeys the Gospel).

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I posted a response before I read this, and I think it addresses the gist of your question:



So, to summarize, the two witnesses are the church, and the church is the reunited Houses of Israel and Judah in Christ (along with anyone else who obeys the Gospel).

does the tree and a half days represent three and a half years of tribulation before the resurection? does this corelate with the events spoken of in Rev 18:4 is this the same "come up hither" or "come out of her my people" and then the wrath?

[Esaias]

The Two Witnesses are raised "after three days and a half". The language used is straight out of Ezekiel 37:10 (spirit or breath of life entered into them, and they stood upon their feet). Ezekiel seems to be referencing a national restoration or revival of God's people using the symbolism of resurrection, and the correlation between that vision and the one in Revelation 11 seems to confirm that both are speaking about a restoration/revival of God's people (though not necessarily referring to the same exact event).

The time frame echoes that of Hosea 6:2, which likewise seems to be speaking of a national revival and restoration, but which also seems to point towards Christ's resurrection. I believe this is the "scripture" that Jesus and the apostles meant when speaking of Christ rising from the dead on the third day "according to the scripture". So here Israel's raising is accomplished first by Christ's raising, so that we are raised up "together with Him" in a spiritual sense when we are placed in Him via conversion. This looks forward to the actual day of resurrection.

But the time frame in Rev 11 is not exact with either Hosea's, or Christ's. 3.5 days is a bit longer than either, thus indicating some difference. This tends to make me suspect it is referring to a literal time frame of some kind rather than just being a symbolic "memory aid' to get the reader to think back to Hosea.

[Esaias]

This has inspired me to do a study on Mystery Babylon. Lord willing, I'll be presenting it this next Sabbath, and I'll post the notes here in this thread.