Gender Laws Forced on Churches?

[Praxeas]

Is a church a place of public accommodation and if so – are congregations required to follow anti-discrimination laws regarding gender and sexual orientation?

That’s the issue raised by a brochure published by the Iowa Civil Rights Commission. They contend that any church that opens its doors to the public would be required to comply with sexual orientation and gender identity laws.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/...l?intcmp=hpbt3

[shazeep]

my first reaction was wow, but then i doubt many churches would admit to discriminating on that basis anyway, and many have stated anti-discrimination policies written into their charters. So hmm. Just seems like a goad, really, to force inclusion where it would not be welcome anyway.

[shazeep]

oh, i see it is about the money. ya, well thats a like a done deal. you are going to have to allow the gender challenged into your church to continue getting exempt tax treatment; enjoy the sunset.

[votivesoul]

I think by law, any place of worship, that expects outsiders to enter the building, and potentially become a member of that local assembly (presumably through the Gospel), would have to accommodate.

How else can a church reach the transgendered and homosexual, if they close their doors to them?

[Praxeas]

There is no real reason to accommodate a man with gender confusion issues to urinate in the women's bathroom nor to create a new gender neutral restroom

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

There is no real reason to accommodate a man with gender confusion issues to urinate in the women's bathroom nor to create a new gender neutral restroom

Perhaps not. But let me throw out a scenario.

An avid soulwinner from an Apostolic church, makes friends with a transgendered person at work. He or she, as the case may be, is determined to win this person to the Lord.

The soulwinner prays, interecedes, travails, and fasts, being a light and loving friend to the transgendered person.

Finally, a chance to really talk with the transgendered person comes around. They have a wonderful conversation about the Lord and His goodness. The Gospel is mentioned. An invitation to the soulwinner's church is given.

The transgendered person accepts, thinking that if this kind, warmhearted and loving person is what a true Christian is, then his/her church must be just the same.

The transgendered attends on a Sunday morning. He or she attempts to use the restroom per the gender of choice. Someone sees it, reports it to an usher, the usher tells the pastor, and the pastor tells the usher to clear the foyer and wait (or worse, go in) for the transgender to come out.

A scene is made, the usher isn't as kind, warmhearted, and loving a person as the soulwinner/coworker. Or maybe so, but is just following orders. Or maybe so, but just isn't up to speed on all the politically correct lingo, and offense is made. The transgender is:

1.) Told to leave the building for the safety of whichever gender

2.) Allowed to stay for the service, but warned that he or she must use the appropriate restroom next time, or he/she won't be welcome back

3.) Nothing is said, but the transgender person is then subtly escorted and followed by the usher for the rest of the meeting, while a quiet word is sent throughout the church so that husbands can protect wives, mothers can protect children, and etc. The transgendered person then of course, realizes what's going on, even though no one has said a thing.

If allowed, he or she stays for the rest of the service, out of courtesy for the soulwinner coworker.

Afterward, heart hardened, feeling hurt and embarrassed, the transgendered person never wants to step foot into an Apostolic Church again.

He or she closes him/herself off from the Gospel. The avid soulwinner can't make a dent.

And for what?

For straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel?

For forgetting the weightier matters of the law?

This scenario is not intended to mean that transgendered people don't need to repent, or that we should coddle them in their sin.

But the Gospel is more important than where a person relieves themselves.

Accommodation, to me, is like an olive branch that let's a transgendered person, who doesn't know his/her right hand from his/her left, who is dead in trespasses, and already condemned, know that he or she can come to a meeting without being judged, harassed, ridiculed, or whatever, and that he or she is then free to experience the presence of God, hear the Word of the Lord proclaimed and heralded, and make a choice to give his or her heart to Jesus, without restraint, and without the church interfering simply because of what restroom he or she went into before service began.

That, to me, is way more important.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Perhaps not. But let me throw out a scenario.

An avid soulwinner from an Apostolic church, makes friends with a transgendered person at work. He or she, as the case may be, is determined to win this person to the Lord.

The soulwinner prays, interecedes, travails, and fasts, being a light and loving friend to the transgendered person.

Finally, a chance to really talk with the transgendered person comes around. They have a wonderful conversation about the Lord and His goodness. The Gospel is mentioned. An invitation to the soulwinner's church is given.

The transgendered person accepts, thinking that if this kind, warmhearted and loving person is what a true Christian is, then his/her church must be just the same.

The transgendered attends on a Sunday morning. He or she attempts to use the restroom per the gender of choice. Someone sees it, reports it to an usher, the usher tells the pastor, and the pastor tells the usher to clear the foyer and wait (or worse, go in) for the transgender to come out.

A scene is made, the usher isn't as kind, warmhearted, and loving a person as the soulwinner/coworker. Or maybe so, but is just following orders. Or maybe so, but just isn't up to speed on all the politically correct lingo, and offense is made. The transgender is:

1.) Told to leave the building for the safety of whichever gender

2.) Allowed to stay for the service, but warned that he or she must use the appropriate restroom next time, or he/she won't be welcome back

3.) Nothing is said, but the transgender person is then subtly escorted and followed by the usher for the rest of the meeting, while a quiet word is sent throughout the church so that husbands can protect wives, mothers can protect children, and etc. The transgendered person then of course, realizes what's going on, even though no one has said a thing.

If allowed, he or she stays for the rest of the service, out of courtesy for the soulwinner coworker.

Afterward, heart hardened, feeling hurt and embarrassed, the transgendered person never wants to step foot into an Apostolic Church again.

He or she closes him/herself off from the Gospel. The avid soulwinner can't make a dent.

And for what?

For straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel?

For forgetting the weightier matters of the law?

This scenario is not intended to mean that transgendered people don't need to repent, or that we should coddle them in their sin.

But the Gospel is more important than where a person relieves themselves.

Accommodation, to me, is like an olive branch that let's a transgendered person, who doesn't know his/her right hand from his/her left, who is dead in trespasses, and already condemned, know that he or she can come to a meeting without being judged, harassed, ridiculed, or whatever, and that he or she is then free to experience the presence of God, hear the Word of the Lord proclaimed and heralded, and make a choice to give his or her heart to Jesus, without restraint, and without the church interfering simply because of what restroom he or she went into before service began.

That, to me, is way more important.

And in case anyone thinks I'm just being philosophical, less than two months ago, a transgendered young man, who was trying to pass as a woman, recently went to an Apostolic Church here in my state, a few hours north of me, and wrote a long testimony of how God changed his life and how the ministry and leadership of said Church helped him realize who the man is that God wants him to become, because they didn't pass judgment, or demonstration any recalcitrance toward him being there in a dress, with makeup and jewelry on.

The fellow repented of his sin, and shared it all on Facebook, with before and after pics for all to see.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

And in case anyone thinks I'm just being philosophical, less than two months ago, a transgendered young man, who was trying to pass as a woman, recently went to an Apostolic Church here in my state, a few hours north of me, and wrote a long testimony of how God changed his life and how the ministry and leadership of said Church helped him realize who the man is that God wants him to become, because they didn't pass judgment, or demonstration any recalcitrance toward him being there in a dress, with makeup and jewelry on.

The fellow repented of his sin, and shared it all on Facebook, with before and after pics for all to see.

Since the person posted this on Facebook, can you provide a link?

[consapente89]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Perhaps not. But let me throw out a scenario.

An avid soulwinner from an Apostolic church, makes friends with a transgendered person at work. He or she, as the case may be, is determined to win this person to the Lord.

The soulwinner prays, interecedes, travails, and fasts, being a light and loving friend to the transgendered person.

Finally, a chance to really talk with the transgendered person comes around. They have a wonderful conversation about the Lord and His goodness. The Gospel is mentioned. An invitation to the soulwinner's church is given.

The transgendered person accepts, thinking that if this kind, warmhearted and loving person is what a true Christian is, then his/her church must be just the same.

The transgendered attends on a Sunday morning. He or she attempts to use the restroom per the gender of choice. Someone sees it, reports it to an usher, the usher tells the pastor, and the pastor tells the usher to clear the foyer and wait (or worse, go in) for the transgender to come out.

A scene is made, the usher isn't as kind, warmhearted, and loving a person as the soulwinner/coworker. Or maybe so, but is just following orders. Or maybe so, but just isn't up to speed on all the politically correct lingo, and offense is made. The transgender is:

1.) Told to leave the building for the safety of whichever gender

2.) Allowed to stay for the service, but warned that he or she must use the appropriate restroom next time, or he/she won't be welcome back

3.) Nothing is said, but the transgender person is then subtly escorted and followed by the usher for the rest of the meeting, while a quiet word is sent throughout the church so that husbands can protect wives, mothers can protect children, and etc. The transgendered person then of course, realizes what's going on, even though no one has said a thing.

If allowed, he or she stays for the rest of the service, out of courtesy for the soulwinner coworker.

Afterward, heart hardened, feeling hurt and embarrassed, the transgendered person never wants to step foot into an Apostolic Church again.

He or she closes him/herself off from the Gospel. The avid soulwinner can't make a dent.

And for what?

For straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel?

For forgetting the weightier matters of the law?

This scenario is not intended to mean that transgendered people don't need to repent, or that we should coddle them in their sin.

But the Gospel is more important than where a person relieves themselves.

Accommodation, to me, is like an olive branch that let's a transgendered person, who doesn't know his/her right hand from his/her left, who is dead in trespasses, and already condemned, know that he or she can come to a meeting without being judged, harassed, ridiculed, or whatever, and that he or she is then free to experience the presence of God, hear the Word of the Lord proclaimed and heralded, and make a choice to give his or her heart to Jesus, without restraint, and without the church interfering simply because of what restroom he or she went into before service began.

That, to me, is way more important.

Romans 13:14 "Make no provision for the flesh"

[shazeep]

ya!

Originally Posted by consapente89

Romans 13:14 "Make no provision for the flesh"

yes, but that is for you, personally.

Put On Christ

11Besides this, knowing the time, it is already the hourq for your to wake up from sleep,s for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.t 12The night is nearly over, and the daylight is near,u so let us discard the deeds of darknessv and put on the armor of light.w 13Let us •walk with decency,x as in the daylight: not in carousing and drunkenness;y not in sexual impurity and promiscuity; not in quarreling and jealousy. 14But put on the Lord Jesus Christ,z and make no plans to satisfy the fleshly desires.aa

this is not a directive to enforce upon others, wadr.