The Slippery Emergent Slope - Page 9

Apprehended · #1 03-04-2011, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotforSale

This post is entirely speculative. You cannot prove one point about Eternity, period. And, the more we delve into Eternity, the more that lies and manipulation are produced for effect.

Your cut and dry approach is almost comical. Your idea about who's saved and who's lost will vary from person to person, and no two people agree on this issue. It doesn’t matter if we belong to the same Denomination and go to the same Church.

If God was cut and dry, you may as well throw mercy out the window. And because you my friend are a thief, a liar, and an adulterer, there would be no hope for you.

Paul was very transparent when it came to the struggle of sin and the ways of our inward man. Apprehended, you’re hiding behind an idea that makes you better than everyone else.

We are not even talking about the same subject.

Good grief!

houston · #2 03-04-2011, 09:47 AM

Que sera, sera!

aegsm76 · #3 03-04-2011, 04:23 PM

For those of you who really believe this, why are you even debating about it?
After all, we will all wind up in the same place.
So why worry about doctine?

crakjak · #4 03-04-2011, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegsm76

For those of you who really believe this, why are you even debating about it?
After all, we will all wind up in the same place.
So why worry about doctine?

Trying to share the Good News, that as many as possible can enter in, as soon as possible.

It is not so much the finality as it is the journey, what does one have to endure or experience on the way?

God has already determined man's final end, every last one will finally bow and confess, that He is Lord, and that confession will be "...to the glory of God the Father...." so that is a great finality that only God could bring about.

But some, will experience destruction of all that they have worked for in this physical life, everything they are, do and attain will be burned up, because they live to themselves and not unto the Lord. "All their works will be burned up, however they will be saved, though by fire."

So, don't view UR as a get out of jail free, all have challenges and difficulty to deal with, some just learn early on to "give it all to Jesus". This life is to learn something, and we all will eventually do just that.

aegsm76 · #5 03-05-2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

Trying to share the Good News, that as many as possible can enter in, as soon as possible.

It is not so much the finality as it is the journey, what does one have to endure or experience on the way?

God has already determined man's final end, every last one will finally bow and confess, that He is Lord, and that confession will be "...to the glory of God the Father...." so that is a great finality that only God could bring about.

But some, will experience destruction of all that they have worked for in this physical life, everything they are, do and attain will be burned up, because they live to themselves and not unto the Lord. "All their works will be burned up, however they will be saved, though by fire."

So, don't view UR as a get out of jail free, all have challenges and difficulty to deal with, some just learn early on to "give it all to Jesus". This life is to learn something, and we all will eventually do just that.

If we all wind up in the same place, what does it matter what I learn in this life?
This is the failure of your doctrine.
Why do I need to be "saved" if everyone will be saved?
Why did Christ need to come and die on the cross, if everyone will be saved?
This is nonsensical.
Not stated as an attack on you CJ, just my opinion!

crakjak · #6 03-05-2011, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegsm76

If we all wind up in the same place, what does it matter what I learn in this life? This is the failure of your doctrine.
Why do I need to be "saved" if everyone will be saved?
Why did Christ need to come and die on the cross, if everyone will be saved?
This is nonsensical.
Not stated as an attack on you CJ, just my opinion!

This is where your point of view fails. God has a purpose in allowing evil to be introduced into the creation. The traditional view believes that it is only just the failure of Adam. You need to learn to be a son, and that will only come thru the refining fire of God, either in this life or in the life to come.

God is at work, in His creation, everything was created by Him and for Him, for His purpose and His glory. It is only after man has been exposed to "good and evil" that he can really understand the holiness of God. The garden and man's disobedience did not take God by surprise.

Christ's coming as a servant, makes the creation God centric, it changes everything.

aegsm76 · #7 03-05-2011, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

This is where your point of view fails. God has a purpose in allowing evil to be introduced into the creation. The traditional view believes that it is only just the failure of Adam. You need to learn to be a son, and that will only come thru the refining fire of God, either in this life or in the life to come.

God is at work, in His creation, everything was created by Him and for Him, for His purpose and His glory. It is only after man has been exposed to "good and evil" that he can really understand the holiness of God. The garden and man's disobedience did not take God by surprise.

Christ's coming as a servant, makes the creation God centric, it changes everything.

In your viewpoint, will every human ever created be saved?
Raven's post prompted this question.

Raven · #8 03-05-2011, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegsm76

If we all wind up in the same place, what does it matter what I learn in this life?
This is the failure of your doctrine.
Why do I need to be "saved" if everyone will be saved?
Why did Christ need to come and die on the cross, if everyone will be saved?This is nonsensical.
Not stated as an attack on you CJ, just my opinion!

The only reason we are saved [whatever the view] is because he did come!

crakjak · #9 03-05-2011, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven

The only reason we are saved [whatever the view] is because he did come!

Right on, brother!!!

Had He not come, we would not exist, it is for Him, and His pleasure that we were created.

Socialite · #10 03-04-2011, 05:28 PM

Aside from the scriptural gymnastics Universalists must do to overlook an abundance of scripture that refers to a final -- and even eternal judgement (spoken often by Jesus himself), here are some other things:

Until the 19th Century, almost all Christian theologians had some understanding and even taught the reality of eternal death. There were some outside of the theological mainstream who believed in conditional immortality (annihilationism), and even fewer who advocated universal salvation. Eternal punishment/death is articulated fully in the creeds and confessions of the Church, a teaching seemingly indispensable. Things changed in the 1800's.

Really great scholarly essay here by Bauckham: http://s3.amazonaws.com/tgc-document...2_Bauckham.pdf