All human beings are born sinners. It comes easy to us, although my besetting sin may not be the *one* that besets others, necessarily. So with that in mind, it doesn't matter to me whether people choose the homosexual lifestyle or they are born that way. The Bible calls it sinful. The Bible condemns adultery (heterosexual sex practiced outside God's boundaries), and it doesn't matter if you were *born* with an attraction to women who aren't your wife, it's still a sin to take one to bed. You might have been a chronic liar since you were a toddler, and lies might roll easily off your tongue, but that doesn't mean it isn't a sin. Being born with a weakness of character or a fatal attraction does not change the definition of what sin is. God's Word defines sin, and that should be where we look to determine how we live our lives.
That said, being tempted to lie or tempted to commit adultery isn't sinful. Neither is being tempted to commit a homosexual act. The only complicating factor here is the Biblical stance on effeminacy: some gay men are effeminate. That in and of itself is an issue that needs addressing, but it's rather subjective.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Last edited by MissBrattified; 07-11-2011 at 03:43 PM.
All human beings are born sinners. It comes easy to us, although my besetting sin may not be the *one* that besets others, necessarily. So with that in mind, it doesn't matter to me whether people choose the homosexual lifestyle or they are born that way. The Bible calls it sinful. The Bible condemns adultery (heterosexual sex practiced outside God's boundaries), and it doesn't matter if you were *born* with an attraction to women who aren't your wife, it's still a sin to take one to bed. You might have been a chronic liar since you were a toddler, and lies might roll easily off your tongue, but that doesn't mean it isn't a sin. Being born with a weakness of character or a fatal attraction does not change the definition of what sin is. God's Word defines sin, and that should be where we look to determine how we live our lives.
That's very true. Also, God allows us to struggle with specific vices in order to prepare us for specific things He wants/needs us to accomplish. For instance PastorTLArt is probably equipped to reach the gay and lesbian community far more than most of us are.
That's very true. Also, God allows us to struggle with specific vices in order to prepare us for specific things He wants/needs us to accomplish. For instance PastorTLArt is probably equipped to reach the gay and lesbian community far more than most of us are.
Except... PTA has just told us homosexual acts are cool with God as long as the participants are married...
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Except... PTA has just told us homosexual acts are cool with God as long as the participants are married...
Ya, I can see where he is saying that. My point was to play off of MissB's post and theorize that everyone is born with a weakness, vice or inclination to sin in a specific area. God no doubt has a reason he allows this to happen (note, didn't say cause).
Anyone who believes that the GOD of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is tolerant of homosexuality is strongly deceived and probably lost in sin.
It's one thing to come to the Lord struggling with sinful thoughts, sinful desires and even sinful behaviors with the knowledge and understanding that the sin is sin and is wrong.
It's completely different to state or to even imply that GOD is tolerant of sin-- homosexuality or any other sin for that matter.
Please, repent.
If there is a brother or sister that is interested in repenting and seeking to live a life pleasing to GOD but is struggling in this area, I will gladly be your friend-- I will not turn you away.
If you think that any sin is alright and you claim to be a Christian, I will not fellowship with you.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 07-11-2011 at 04:49 PM.
Does anyone here know someone who believes they have been "delivered" by the power of God from lifelong homosexuality? Not speaking of someone who got experimental then repented, but a former hardcore who now is not gay?
Last I heard, there aren't any verifiable cases apart from those speaking "by faith" and of course "behaving themselves".....thus far.
Sincerely asking the above, but of course I'm coming from a position (who isn't.) In recent years I've changed to believe that some people are born gay. Yes, environment has great effect too. But in general gay is not something ones chooses to be. Chooses to DO, yes, but chooses to "be", no. (Please don't take this to suppose I think homosexuality is compatible with the Bible, OT or NT. Pretty clear it isn't.)
I knew a guy who was gay until he was past 30. He came to church got saved, lived for God for more than 6 years without relapse, was engaged and then died of AIDS.
He was a great guy.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
An introduction to AFF policy for newbies and refresher for others:
From the Admin of the Apostolic Friends Forum
As Christians, our response to the issue of homosexuality is twofold:
1. Homosexuality is one of many sins that bring destruction and pain to the life of the sinner. There can be no positive outcome of sin, so compassion for the sinner requires that we lovingly apprise them of their need for change. Withholding truth from the lost is not a loving or compassionate response to their state. Therefore the forum will not shy away from noting what is sin from a scriptural standpoint, providing that truth is shared in love.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
2. The Christian response to a sinner should be the same, no matter what the sin. We should respond with a biblically based solution that illustrates clearly the sinful nature of any particular deed, and also clearly illustrates the compassionate response of Christ to sin. He offers forgiveness to the repentant, plain and simple, and new life in Him. It is not judgmental to acknowledge what is sin, and in fact it is destructive to turn a blind eye to sin. If the lost are not convinced that they are in a position of estrangement from God, they will never be able to come to a place of repentance and be a recipient of His mercy. Therefore, as Christians, both on this forum, and in our personal lives, we should seek to lead sinners to repentance, so they might find new life in Christ.
Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
II Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
As forum Admin, we will not allow the gay agenda to be pushed on this forum. Meaning, we will not allow a constant barrage of rhetoric designed to make those who adhere to biblical values and scriptural truths feel guilty or inferior. We will not allow a push for acceptance of the gay agenda and lifestyle, and call a rejection thereof a rejection of the individual. They are not one and the same, and should not be treated as such. A rejection of sin is not a rejection of the sinner.
We will not allow a defense of the gay agenda and lifestyle by more liberal leaning minds, or overt criticism toward those who don't practice a similar tolerance for sin.
There are numerous forums online where the gay agenda can be openly proclaimed, even within Christian ranks. There are numerous Christian groups (using the term loosely) who have decided to accept practicing homosexuals as brethren, and perhaps feel they are practicing the love of Christ in doing so. We feel they err, because the love of Christ involves freeing a soul from sin; not encouraging the soul to continue to wallow in the mire.
Therefore, while we allow debate and discussion on the AFF, and we encourage anyone to join who shares an interest in Apostolic topics and concerns, we will not allow an overt attack on biblical values and truths, and upon the character of those who live and preach the same.
Hopefully this will help clarify the forum's position on the matter, and frame future debates.
__________________ "Ya'll behave now, ya hear!"
The Admin Team
*AQuietPlace*
CC1
Esther
Hoovie
Prax
The Mrs
votivesoul
An introduction to AFF policy for newbies and refresher for others:
From the Admin of the Apostolic Friends Forum
As Christians, our response to the issue of homosexuality is twofold:
1. Homosexuality is one of many sins that bring destruction and pain to the life of the sinner. There can be no positive outcome of sin, so compassion for the sinner requires that we lovingly apprise them of their need for change. Withholding truth from the lost is not a loving or compassionate response to their state. Therefore the forum will not shy away from noting what is sin from a scriptural standpoint, providing that truth is shared in love.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
2. The Christian response to a sinner should be the same, no matter what the sin. We should respond with a biblically based solution that illustrates clearly the sinful nature of any particular deed, and also clearly illustrates the compassionate response of Christ to sin. He offers forgiveness to the repentant, plain and simple, and new life in Him. It is not judgmental to acknowledge what is sin, and in fact it is destructive to turn a blind eye to sin. If the lost are not convinced that they are in a position of estrangement from God, they will never be able to come to a place of repentance and be a recipient of His mercy. Therefore, as Christians, both on this forum, and in our personal lives, we should seek to lead sinners to repentance, so they might find new life in Christ.
Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
II Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
As forum Admin, we will not allow the gay agenda to be pushed on this forum. Meaning, we will not allow a constant barrage of rhetoric designed to make those who adhere to biblical values and scriptural truths feel guilty or inferior. We will not allow a push for acceptance of the gay agenda and lifestyle, and call a rejection thereof a rejection of the individual. They are not one and the same, and should not be treated as such. A rejection of sin is not a rejection of the sinner.
We will not allow a defense of the gay agenda and lifestyle by more liberal leaning minds, or overt criticism toward those who don't practice a similar tolerance for sin.
There are numerous forums online where the gay agenda can be openly proclaimed, even within Christian ranks. There are numerous Christian groups (using the term loosely) who have decided to accept practicing homosexuals as brethren, and perhaps feel they are practicing the love of Christ in doing so. We feel they err, because the love of Christ involves freeing a soul from sin; not encouraging the soul to continue to wallow in the mire.
Therefore, while we allow debate and discussion on the AFF, and we encourage anyone to join who shares an interest in Apostolic topics and concerns, we will not allow an overt attack on biblical values and truths, and upon the character of those who live and preach the same.
Hopefully this will help clarify the forum's position on the matter, and frame future debates.
Just to state my intent, The ONLY agenda I have is called the Word of the Lord, My AGENDA is to Preach repentance of sin, baptism in Jesus name and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Aside from that I have absolutely NO other agenda. I did not make my reply to promote anything but to simply answer a question posed to the board.
I respect everyone's belief and I understand that most of you do not accept me as a brother, and that is your right, But as to your opening with "as christians", that should in all honestly say "as Christians who believe that homosexuality is a sin" because not all Christians believe as you do, I have seen enough on the board to see that not all OP's on here totally agree, Some believe that trinitarians are unsaved, some don't. There are many things that we believe that are just that, personal beliefs.
I am not here to promote an agenda. I am here to fellowship with Brothers and Sisters of like precious faith and I hope that I will continue to be allowed to do so.
__________________
Apostolic is an understanding that God has finally and completely revealed Himself to all mankind through His incarnation as Jesus Christ. He has revealed to all a way of life, love and forgiveness that leads to a right relationship with Him and with each other.
~Repairing the Apostolic Church, Apostle W. Carey & Bishop N. Morales
"Ya'll behave now, ya hear!"
Hybrid Mode
